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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello there. Today a friend of my father brought us a wheel bearing which had inside 25mm ¿steel? balls. So, I was thinking about making a new band set using three layers on each side instead of two. Also, shooting in 3/4 butterfly, which has been performing perfectly (actual band set has been working for more than month and a half!)

So, I'm planning cutting it the same length I was using, and using 30mm on the fork and 23mm on the pouch.

Do you think it will perform well with these huge ammo?

-EDIT-
Actually the calculator says using 40mm wide. Im afraid I won't be able to pull this bands all the way back, and also I think they won't fit good neither on my Torque or Scout. Can anyone give me some reference? Thanks
 

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What you have proposed is adequate. The band calculator gives more of a highly efficient dimension. Also, make sure the calculator input is correct. It frequently gives total width required so divide it by three for individual band width if you inputted in a manner that provides such a result. Triple Theraband gold is a fair amount to pull at the dimensions you propose. Make sure you have a solid grip on your slingshot.
 

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The band calculator does not take into account your personal strength. Three layers at 40mm would throw the 25 mm balls at over 75 m/s IF you could draw them out in full. Which I don't think you can. My record shot with 25mm steel balls was about 62 m/s, and that was done with a huge starship in full butterfly.

If you can draw out the 30x23mm triple band set to a 3/4 butterfly (say 130 cm draw length), then you will get about 45 m/s. Still a whopping 68 Joule shot. But 75 m/s would be 188 Joule.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Also, make sure the calculator input is correct. It frequently gives total width required so divide it by three for individual band width if you inputted in a manner that provides such a result.
This was my input: Image, I didn't use the tapper option because I want to make it on the pouch 75% of the fork, and also I want to keep the 30mm fork because I think it will fit better on my slingshot.

If you can draw out the 30x23mm triple band set to a 3/4 butterfly (say 130 cm draw length), then you will get about 45 m/s. Still a whopping 68 Joule shot.
I know I won't probably be able to draw it all, I hope my father does and can show me some nice shots. I was just curious about shooting some huge ammo to see its destruction abilities, but personally I'm a huge fan of 10-12mm steel and double band sets, thats really fun without the need of been really strong!
 

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If you haven't shot ammo like that before - be careful. Big ammo beginners often experience RTS shots, specifically when using bands they cannae control - RTSs are really nasty with 25 mm steel, believe me.
 

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That amount of power would most likely even have enough power to straight kill you if it ricochet back.
I really don't wont to imagine a forkhit with that as in the best case you probably got a hole in your hand and the split fork in your face.

I don't want be anywhere near a 25mm steel ball traveling with a whooping 188Joules of Energy in it^^
Not even around the corner of your house :D

Be careful!
 

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A few things to be aware of during your research. Several have come across the video of my brother shooting pinballs. He appears to handle the slingshot with ease. Understand that at that time he was doing 50 pull-ups per day, 50 push-ups per day and shooting double TBG for 20 minutes a day. Don't be fooled by how easy he makes it look. He also has a very unique way of holding the pouch that is a lot stronger.

If I was to guess, I suspect triple TBG at 1" width is approaching a 50 pound draw. This would be the equivalent to drawing a 100+ pound bow.
 

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A few things to be aware of during your research. Several have come across the video of my brother shooting pinballs. He appears to handle the slingshot with ease. Understand that at that time he was doing 50 pull-ups per day, 50 push-ups per day and shooting double TBG for 20 minutes a day. Don't be fooled by how easy he makes it look. He also has a very unique way of holding the pouch that is a lot stronger.

If I was to guess, I suspect triple TBG at 1" width is approaching a 50 pound draw. This would be the equivalent to drawing a 100+ pound bow.
Because of butterfly shooting?
 

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Because of butterfly shooting?
...a combination of everything in that video. Doing what he is doing without some slingshot experience and knowledge would be like handing a 50 cal. handgun to someone who has never shot a gun in their lives. Knowledge and respect of what you have in your hand is a must in this case.

If your question concerns the difference in power, a bow pulls evenly and does not twist the wrist. A slingshot applies all the force above the wrist causing a twisting force to the wrist. If you understand bending moment, it is a function of force times offset distance.
 

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I think the difference in draw weights for bows and powerful slingshots is mostly in the pouch hand, not so much in the slingshot hand. Yes, there is torque on the wrist, but if you use a modern low forked frame that is not the limiting factor.

First problem is the long draw. At some point, the power no longer comes from your back muscles (which are among the largest muscles in your body), but from your triceps - much weaker. Then, you have to hold the pouch with the ball, and the position of the hand gets very awkward as you draw towards full butterfly.

As you learn to handle high draw weight full butterfly shooting, there are a few tricks you can/will employ. First, you can do the "TobseB" style draw, with both arms outstretched over your head at the start, then bringing the arms down straight until you reach the shooting position. This means you don't have to use the triceps for the stretching, but let the back muscle do the work (still there is a ton of static force on the triceps).

You can also use the "fist shooting" method of holding the pouch. You grab the pouch with ball inside with the thumb and the first two or three fingers of the hand in a closed fist. This is much stronger and also not nearly as awkward as the usual thumb+index method.

Mind you even TobseB had his fair share of RTS shots and these days, he is usually shooting much smaller balls and uses much weaker bands. Believe me, the experience is very scary.
 

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I completely forgot about the pouch hand. My brother and I use a very different fist hold he developed that uses the strength of the hand that would grasp a pistol grip (like putting something in the middle of your hand and playing keep-away with your children - open your fist and the ammo slides over the palm of your hand in line with your arm)...tons stronger than any of the other method out there, including what I refer to as the smiling face fist grip (stick the ammo in the mouth of the fist puppet). Most importantly, the wrist is not bent and in its strongest mode.

Like you have mentioned in the past Jörg, soft leather reduces RTS issues. However, upon reaching this level of force you have trouble finding a leather soft enough to reduce RTS problems and also strong enough to resist the tearing force. It is a tricky balance.

We generally stick to no more than 3 x 1" layers at 450% to 475%. The 4 layer is used more like an exercise setup with no ammo. It builds up the muscles to allow for the 3 layer to feel so much more comfortable.


Fist Grip per my brother (see about 2:20)

https://youtu.be/3GxExHm26Y8
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yesterday I banded up the whole thing and it's working perfectly. It's a big draw weigth but it's really fun! Now I can take care of a bag full of hex nuts I bougth the other day.

The final measures were 30-23mm in 3/4 butterfly (About 125cm)
 

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First time i shot 22mm lead i had an rts. I was using my own design forkless shooter and full width tbg. Needless to say the result was painfull cracked rib and a bruise the size of a dinner plate. Please learn from my stupidity.
 

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The band calculator does not take into account your personal strength. Three layers at 40mm would throw the 25 mm balls at over 75 m/s IF you could draw them out in full. Which I don't think you can. My record shot with 25mm steel balls was about 62 m/s, and that was done with a huge starship in full butterfly.

If you can draw out the 30x23mm triple band set to a 3/4 butterfly (say 130 cm draw length), then you will get about 45 m/s. Still a whopping 68 Joule shot. But 75 m/s would be 188 Joule.
Slightly related Question but if i for one go into your Calculator and enter that i want to use 14mm Marbles (3,16grams) and want to go for max power it tells me that i should go with 41mm tapered to 17mm and that only one band per side is needed.

How would i handle the 41mm on the forks, just fold them in half or cut it into two pieces per side (2x 20,5*8,5mm ??) and if i want to use the data that the calculator gives me and want to apply them to Theraband Black would the sizes persist and how many additional sheets would i need per side to account for the lower draw-weight?

Sorry to bother you with this question but atm i'm pretty impressed with Theraband Black and the faster speeds i get compared with Theraband Gold at a lower draw-weight :)


(BTW. Is there a algorithm worked into the calculator that accounts for the normal width of a Theraband-Roll or why is it that i get atleast one bandset without having to use multiple sheets of Theraband)
 

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The calculator is still optimized for the old TBG rolls (they used to be wider).

You can always cut the bands in half. Max power means that they are very tapered, so keep in mind the bands won't last long.

If you want to use TBB, that has about 60% of the strength of TBG. So you have to multiply the results for the width at both fork and pouch by 1,66. Length stays the same.

TBB is only slightly better than TBG when you shoot very small ammo.
 

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Slightly related Question but if i for one go into your Calculator and enter that i want to use 14mm Marbles (3,16grams) and want to go for max power it tells me that i should go with 41mm tapered to 17mm and that only one band per side is needed.

How would i handle the 41mm on the forks, just fold them in half or cut it into two pieces per side (2x 20,5*8,5mm ??) and if i want to use the data that the calculator gives me and want to apply them to Theraband Black would the sizes persist and how many additional sheets would i need per side to account for the lower draw-weight?

Sorry to bother you with this question but atm i'm pretty impressed with Theraband Black and the faster speeds i get compared with Theraband Gold at a lower draw-weight :)


(BTW. Is there a algorithm worked into the calculator that accounts for the normal width of a Theraband-Roll or why is it that i get atleast one bandset without having to use multiple sheets of Theraband)
I always choose to keep my bandsets 1 piece per side, and i fold in half to fit on the forks when necessary. Its easier and less tedious to cut and tie one layer bandsets instead if two. Just make sure that it folds evenly and the whole bandset is straight and both ends are in line with each other.
 

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I always choose to keep my bandsets 1 piece per side, and i fold in half to fit on the forks when necessary. Its easier and less tedious to cut and tie one layer bandsets instead if two. Just make sure that it folds evenly and the whole bandset is straight and both ends are in line with each other.
+1
 

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The calculator is still optimized for the old TBG rolls (they used to be wider).

You can always cut the bands in half. Max power means that they are very tapered, so keep in mind the bands won't last long.

If you want to use TBB, that has about 60% of the strength of TBG. So you have to multiply the results for the width at both fork and pouch by 1,66. Length stays the same.

TBB is only slightly better than TBG when you shoot very small ammo.
Good to know.

I recall the discussion about the quality changing as well. Have you noticed any changes in your more recent purchases? I might be in the market for a new roll at the close of summer and need to be sure I get the correct stuff.
 

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The calculator is still optimized for the old TBG rolls (they used to be wider).

You can always cut the bands in half. Max power means that they are very tapered, so keep in mind the bands won't last long.

If you want to use TBB, that has about 60% of the strength of TBG. So you have to multiply the results for the width at both fork and pouch by 1,66. Length stays the same.

TBB is only slightly better than TBG when you shoot very small ammo.
Ah i see, i remember seeing a Blogpost of you where you compared TBB to TBG and TBB came joule-wise on top even though the TBB-Setup was slightly higher in draw (it was 55 in comparence to 88 Joules max-power i believe?)

At the end you mentioned that you were going to do the same test with Theraband Tan and i'd like to know if you ever did that and how much of an increase in additional Power you noticed if at all compared to TBB & TBG, i'm aware that those kind of bands are highly tunned for power rather than durability as Torsten1... mentioned in one of his Youtube-Videos whit his (450fps??)-Bands only lasting for 20-40 Shots, still sometimes its cool to aim for the highest speed rather than durability.

Also did anyone ever looked up how much more expensive or not a Setup with TBB is compared to an equal Setup with TBG?
I remember that i payed less for TBB but is it that much less that accounting for the more you need it would came out equally? (Not taking Durability into account)
 
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