Throwing a football with accuracy

Discussion in 'New project ideas' started by JoergS, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    So there is this fancy ESPN video about a Quarterback who claims to be more accurate than an Olympic archer.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVoqA-LKGb4[/ame]

    While the guy IS good, he throws from 20 yards (18 meters) distance. They fail to tell the audience that Olympic archers shoot at that target from 70 meters distance, almost 4 times as far! And they STILL hit the center of the target (the Gold) 50% of the times.

    Anyway. The video goes on and on how the guy spins that ball and achieves "just the right amount of wobble" to get that kind of accuracy.

    From my not inconsiderable experience at launching heavy, oddly shaped objects, I say that this is bull dung. From 18 meters distance, it does not matter how you throw the darn thing. You can throw it sideways if you want. All that counts is that you throw it the same way every time.

    The ball is heavy enough (15 ounces), inertia will make sure that it flies stable, at least over 18 meters.

    I will make a fixed mounted launcher that throws the ball sideways with no spin at all. I intend to hit a small target ten times in a row from 20 yards as well. Then we'll see.
     
  2. mvd

    mvd Builds with scrap

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    I really hate those so called "science" shows, regardless of country.
    I feel mocked by this, concerning that I shot a recurve bow at targets 70 meters away.
     

  3. Ghosth

    Ghosth Over the hill but still swinging!

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  4. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    Some are better than others, though. I still like the Mythbusters, they do some really cool stuff. A fun show to watch, especially when they blow things up.

    I also liked the "Weapon Masters" show, very good background information and really good craftsmanship.
     
  5. mvd

    mvd Builds with scrap

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    There are always exceptions from the rule ;)
    What I wanted to say but completly forgot: please prove them wrong
     
  6. Withak

    Withak aka Whitehawk!

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    Yes, this is a good idea, this must be done.
     
  7. VWscooby

    VWscooby Senior Member

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    Who is more accurate - NFL QB or Olympic Archer? That sounds as sensible a question as the 'Slingshot or Gun' thread. Chalk and cheese.

    The proving them wrong, mythbusters-style, slingshot based tomfoolery sounds like a great plan. :)
     
  8. JimRhodo

    JimRhodo Junior Member

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    All that counts is that you throw it the same way every time. "

    I feel like it is finally dawning on me something which is staring everybody else in the face: namely accuracy is about launching an object in exactly the same way as the previous hundred plus times so that for the same input the outcome will be totally predictable.

    So as long as you don't hit the forks, use irregular (ie variable ) ammo, different launch vehicles all the time it doesn't really matter what your technique is. Just use the same technique over and over until it is second nature.

    So when I keep changing what I do over and over I am actually 'unlearning' what my nervous system is trying to learn is the way to do it next time?

    Or am I barking up the wrong tree again?

    And with the others it does seem a nonsense to compare the accuracy of an arrow with the placing of a ball. You can't take out a deer with a football and who would try catching a whizzing arrow on the way to a goal line?
     
  9. JohnKrakatoa

    JohnKrakatoa Loudest boom on Earth

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    but even mythbusters degraged to a silly show about "cool" tricks and mainly explosions.... in the latest episodes it hurs my brain when they mention the word experiment and their sample is like 2. Or major leaks in testing. Eg. when they wanted to see if you can flip a SUV with an RPG, they shot the cars straight upfront eachtime(2 times or so) in the motor. And the clip (even thouh 'was from a movie scene) showed the rpg exploding after it impacted into the pavement( which they forgot to have and tested on a loose ground type) under the car.
     
  10. Will

    Will Thread Hijacker

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    20 yards is painfully easy, with any modern bow. I am nowhere near a world class archer, but I must use caution even at 40 yards or I will hit my own arrows, and this gets quite expensive.
     
  11. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    Peyton manning should take notes...
     
  12. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    Have started the build today. The frame is pretty much done.

    [​IMG]

    It is fixed to the ground for enhanced precision, and aimed at my backstop.

    [​IMG]

    The height is adjustable. I will add another post to the other side tomorrow.

    [​IMG]

    I drilled holes through the wooden base frame and hammered in 20 mm wooden rods, half a meter into the dense earth. I needed a sledgehammer for that! Then I drilled a long screw through the rod. Very solid.

    [​IMG]

    Tomorrow, the final touches on the frame, the sled with lock and trigger, the winch and the "fork arms" (rubber attachments).
     
  13. BeMahoney

    BeMahoney Builder of things

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    How did I miss this ?

    Interesting project!

    from the weight of that football I dare to say:

    This is going to be a load of fun!

    I´m very curious to see that ball fly :)

    Thanks for sharing!

    Be
     
  14. zurk021414

    zurk021414 New Member

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    At 18 meters it was said that Rick McKinney (not sure if that's the exact spelling) used to shoot aspirins. If I remember right, it was a stick bow (standard recurve) and probably not a release (they were illegal for amateur/Olympic archers). The 18 meter FITA target has a pretty small 10 ring.

    Don't know if it is still that way, but a full FITA outdoor round was at 90, 70, 50, and 30 meters. I think it was 144 arrows in a day's time...36 at each distance. Tiring, because we shot the heavier limbs for better accuracy at the longer distances.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2014
  15. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    Well, they keep saying "Olympic Archers" in that ESPN video.

    AFAIK the olympic archery tournament shoots at targets 70 meters away.

    Not 18 meters.

    Huge difference.
     
  16. zurk021414

    zurk021414 New Member

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    If it's an "indoor" round, distances are 18 and 25 meters, with much smaller targets than they are showing.
    The longer distances are reserved for outdoors, where you also have to contend with the wind. One of the reasons for heavier limbs outdoors. The Olympic rounds might just be the outdoors rounds.
     
  17. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    No indoor shooting at the Olympics.
     
  18. zurk021414

    zurk021414 New Member

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    I'd also bet money that their 50% number is coming from the entire field. If you took the medal winners' scores...I'm betting it is higher than that. The upper level archers would very occasionally shoot 300's at 18 meters....that's 30 10's in a row.
     
  19. zurk021414

    zurk021414 New Member

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    We used indoor mainly for keeping the muscles up and practice. I think that's also how we determined members of the team...something like 3 highest scores in the couple of weeks before the shoot.
     
  20. BeMahoney

    BeMahoney Builder of things

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    Hey Jörg,

    there is a link to that "spinning"/"rotating" projectile issue, right?
    What if the football is propelled by 4 rubber bands which are
    connected to another like here (literally four little cords tied to the bands,
    making up rings; maybe six or eight?. Two or better three of them
    near the pouch)

    [​IMG]
    © MEV Verlag, Augsburg

    Implementing the cords (in my mind right where the white meets the red..)
    would then allow the four bands and the pouch to be twisted before releasing
    the shots.. Even a 90° (better 180° of course) twist would have to result in
    a rotating football (90° twist undone in 1/10th of a second would mean
    5 spins in two seconds)...

    Just had to get this out of my mind.. Hope I could transport the thoughts
    w/o sketches..

    best regards,

    Be