Texan Manufacturer Says Hello!

Discussion in 'Welcome & Introductions' started by Radon088, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. Radon088

    Radon088 New Member

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    Hello Slingshot Channel!
    My name is Radon from west Texas and I joined up after seeing the amazing 'Instant Legolas' on YouTube. I own my grandmother's old manufacturing company (Farmer's Design Group LLC) that went out of business about a decade ago. I still have all the facilities, equipment, ect and after seeing that nice bit of kit I thought it might be just the thing to get the old company back into business.

    So get in touch with me if you're interested and we can talk a little shop.
     
  2. NamenloserHeld91

    NamenloserHeld91 Senior Member

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    HI Radon welcome at the forum
     

  3. Radon088

    Radon088 New Member

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    Thanks, happy to be here.
     
  4. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    Welcome! Good luck with the project, and let me know if you need help. +
     
  5. Radon088

    Radon088 New Member

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    Thank you for the offer sir. I've sent you a PM with a few requests and I appreciate any assistance you may give.
     
  6. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    I answered, but I really suggest you ask your questions here in the open, in the spirit of the Public Domain. We have some very qualified users here that will no doubts be extremely helpful for your project.
     
  7. Radon088

    Radon088 New Member

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    Ah well I can definitely talk about it out here if that is what you prefer.
    It is a shame there aren't any schematics but they aren't really necessary. Do you happen to have any photos of the device, especially photos of the area around where it mounts to the bow? I wasn't able to get a good look at that area as it was hidden behind the bow itself for most of the video.

    As for what kind of bow, the idea is to try and make the device as universal as possible. The biggest problems in that front are the draw length of the bow and the length of the arrows. Making the device adjustable for arrow length is easy but the mechanics behind adjusting for draw length are harder. The most obvious solution would be an adjustable rail but that presents the issue of having an area in the 'draw guide' with a hard ninety degree edge. While we might be able to get away with the simple adjustable rail system if we kept the edges as close to the bow as possible but an alternative would be best.

    For materials we loved the idea of using Teflon to reduce friction on the string. What would be your opinion on using Teflon inserts instead of making the entire side plates out of it?
     
  8. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    Going for a universal design is very complex, maybe even impossible. I only own a few bows, but all of them are so massively different that I couldn't even design one magazine that fits two of them, let alone all.

    If I wanted to bring out a product, I'd start by selling a bow with the magazine as a package, then slowly expanding to other bow models over time.

    I'd begin by choosing a weak bow (like the Vortex) as this one can be drawn with the fingers. Developing a sliding release sled is a whole new project with many issues to be taken care of. The Vortex is inexpensive and I am sure you can get a great price if you buy them by the dozen.

    Then you need to take care of the arrows. You need special arrows anyway, no readily available product is suitable. You need to use two vanes so they are stack-able, you need special broadheads that fit the magazine and can be exchanged by field tips of the same length. I would keep those arrows as short as possible so the bow shoots at decent speed even though the poundage is low.

    Teflon inserts will work fine, but you need to make sure they are fitted 100%. When you cock the bow, the index and middle finger slide along the magazine, and ANY kind of edge will cause pain and bleeding.

    Once you have successfully made this relatively simple product, you will have collected a good amount of experience and understanding for the concept. Then you can up the game and take the next step.

    Oh, and the magazine is attached to the Vortex simply by the original screw for the arrow rest and then two additional spax screws. I drilled the holes for them to the left and to the right of the original screw so the magazine can not turn up and down.
     
  9. NamenloserHeld91

    NamenloserHeld91 Senior Member

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    I think it woud be easyer to start the market with cheap compund bows. Make it as cheap as possibel so you can grow. And later you can make them on order.
     
  10. Radon088

    Radon088 New Member

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    You may be correct on the universal idea. Have done a bit of research and archery doesn't quite have the same sort of common measurements for after market parts that is prevalent in something like firearms. The package deal idea may work but I'll have to get into the economics of it to see how feasible it would be for a start up.

    Making arrows, while possible would be not ideal in an economic sense. Seeing as we would be one of a very limited number of makers of the specialty arrows there would likely be a nasty supply bottleneck. While we do have some good equipment we really don't have the ability to scale into any kind of high demand for arrows.
    Could we make a few? Definitely

    Dozens? Sure not too hard.

    The hundreds if not thousands that would be needed if this product got any significant sales? Not a chance without a lot of cost going into tooling into it.

    We could have them made and just resell them but that can get expensive.

    The issues so far are mostly coming up on the economic side of things. A larger established company may have to be the only option for this I really hate to say.
     

  11. Yes and no in my opinion. Yes in the sense that it would be much easier if made by a large brand, but no in that I honestly don't think big archery names (like Hoyt, PSE, Matthews) would go for it. I just don't think there would be a large demand for this. The majority of archery accessories generally seem to revolve around either hunting or target shooting/competition. I would definitely suggest finding a way to use a mechanical release, because by drawing the bow using ones fingers instead you significantly limit the draw weight dropping the overall power. The way I see it this is more of a novelty that could probably be marketed towards backyard shooters who want something fun on a long weekend but not towards the serious archery community, many of whom pay thousands for the latest and most accurate bows and accessories.

    Less power, less accuracy, added bulk, less consistency, - no advantage for hunting (yes it has multiple shots, but if you miss that first shot, the animal is long gone by the time you have another shot ready.)

    Less accurate, heavily limits the options for arrow rests, - no advantage for competition and target shooting.


    I don't mean to sound harsh or overly critical here and this has potential totally worth refining. I would suggest 1. Allow for a mechanical release, that will certainly allow for a regular draw weight bow, and it will improve accuracy, 2. If possible use a soft material. Anything else might damage the string very quick.
     
  12. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    Radon, no need to mass produce arrows. You just have to design them and then go to Gold Tip or one of the other big players. They will manufacture your arrows to your needs 100% and give you a great discount.

    For them it does not matter if you want two or three vanes, and they will produce any kind of tip you want.

    FXAirguns from Sweden is doing the same with the hollow, short arrows for the airguns. My store alone must have bought more than 10,000 of these arrows.
     
  13. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    You are right in general, but I see a fairly big market for self defense purposes. Not so much in the US, but here in Europe there is basically no more legal way to have a multi shot distance weapon by your bed stand.

    Look at Germany: You can have the guns but you have to keep them under lock and key, separated from the ammo. Now you even have to lock in airguns and crossbows.

    That is why we sold a huge quantity (every piece we could get) of the FXAirguns Verminator. A single shot arrow shooter with less power than a 200 € crossbow. It sets you back 2000 € if you throw in the pump and some arrows. But it is legal to own and you don't have to lock it in.
     
  14. This is the first I've ever heard of bows for home defense, but as you mentioned that likely because I'm in he US. And it's somewhat common for shooters to laugh if someone suggests using a 22 for home defense so I cant even imagine their response to a bow. Thankful most of us in the US can keep customized ARs for that purpose. Less so in California though. Remember regular capacity magazines are evil as are folding stocks, and pistol grips. And god help you if you want a detachable magazine.

    Though I see where you are coming from and if guns are unavailable then I guess a multi shot bow is the next best option. Then might I suggest some type of mounted flashlight or another lighting system on the magazine component if that is legal for you guys in Europe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017
  15. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    On a bow, you can do what you want. But any kind of lighting system on guns, airguns, even airsoft one, is illegal. Same goes for crossbows.

    Self defense in general is legal in Germany, but the authorities don't want people to have weapons at the ready for that purpose.

    A bow for self defense may seem awkward, but if it is easy to draw and pretty much foolproof PLUS a magazine, it is actually not so bad. Aiming within a house is easy too, just point and shoot. Distances are short. A burglar with an arrow sticking in his belly, chest or thigh won't be interested in your TV really. Even more so when the bow is already drawn again and a follow up shot is imminent.