Spiked ammo

Discussion in 'General Slingshot Discussions' started by Zynk, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Zynk

    Zynk New Member

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    Some days ago I was watching some of Joerg's videos about different types of ammo against the ballistic gelatin and I realized that there is an universal rule: the smaller the surface of the ammo, the easier it penetrates the gelatin. <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_scratch.png" alt="scratch" longdesc="33"><br><br>Then, I inferred something really simple... <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_study.png" alt="study" longdesc="34"><br><br>What if I throw a spiked steel ball instead of a simple rounded steel ball?<br><br>The result is simple: no matter the way you throw it, it penetrates the target almost like a knife but still shaped as a ball. Which means you can throw it using an ordinary slingshot (but with reinforced pouch to preserve its durability and protect the user's fingers).<br><br>I don't have this kind of ammo to test and see how it would work, but its fairly easy to imagine it. <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt="Rolling Eyes" longdesc="14"><br><br>In addition, depending on which target you are aiming at, the ammo may get nailed to it and cause much more damage. <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_twisted.gif" alt="Twisted Evil" longdesc="13"><br><br>What do you guys think about it? And what about you Joerg? Would you compare this kind of ammo against the ballistic gelatin? I think it would be awesome to see your slingshots in action using this wicked kind of ammo. <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_cool.gif" alt="Cool" longdesc="6"><br><br>Now we just need to figure out how to get some of these. <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_lol.gif" alt="Laughing" longdesc="7"><br><br>Cheers! <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_biggrin.png" alt="Very Happy" longdesc="1">
     
  2. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    I'd test it for sure. But I haven't found any suitable "spiked balls" so far. I guess I could make some, but that would be a lot of work for sure.
     

  3. Artifex

    Artifex New Member

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    What about taking a child's jacks:<br><img src="http://www.tintoyarcade.com/product_images/x/tta1643_jacks_game__49843.jpg" border="0" alt=""><br><br>and grinding the ball ends to a point?
     
  4. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    Those would be very hard to center in the pouch, with possible catastrophic misfirings... <br><br>The idea would only work if the spikes are rather short and not too sharp.
     
  5. Zynk

    Zynk New Member

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Artifex wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">What about taking a child's jacks and grinding the ball ends to a point?</td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br><br>I don't think it would work properly. The idea of getting spiked steel balls is not only fulfilled just by having the metal spikes on it, but the overall weight distribution, as well as the number, positioning and size of the spikes also influence the ammo trajectory and power. These toys don't have a central weight and have only a few metal structures to be grinded.</span>
     
  6. Artifex

    Artifex New Member

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    What about using the shaped pouch you used to fire multiple balls 'shotgun' style?<br><br>Then fire these:<br><img src="http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/325/329/105/105329325_035.jpg" border="0" alt=""><br><br>Just do a search for 'caltrops' for different varieties.
     
  7. Zynk

    Zynk New Member

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Artifex wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">What about using the shaped pouch you used to fire multiple balls 'shotgun' style?<br><br>Then fire these:<br><br>Just do a search for 'caltrops' for different varieties.</td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br><br>Again, without a central weight it won't work properly. These will be too light to be thrown and will lose power during the trajectory. Also, these spikes are too big and in my opinion not sharp enough for the job.<br></span>
     
  8. Artifex

    Artifex New Member

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    True enough.... Bit of a bummer though. Lemme think a little more on this, maybe something in the way of a sabot...
     
  9. Zynk

    Zynk New Member

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    Here is an image which is close to what I imagined:<br><br><img src="http://oi50.tinypic.com/9ptk40.jpg" border="0" alt=""><br><br>In my opinion it should be better with thinner and a bit sharper spikes (and a few more of them), but this one could be nicely shot too.
     
  10. Achso_42

    Achso_42 Senior Member

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    I am actually working on some shrapnel ammo, with a washer and steel wire around it, thought about little wire pieces sticking in the wound
     
  11. HonzaS

    HonzaS New Member

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    If the ball stuck in the pouch, and returned to the shrinkage of rubber, you get hit straight in the face.
     
  12. Bert the Welder

    Bert the Welder New Member

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    All right! Metal! Now we're talkin'!<br>I was thinking about your bone crusher ammo, Jorg. How about notching the center washer, giving it sharp "teeth". Like a bicycle cog, but pointy. Instead of stacking washers, use a fender washer and just two nuts. One on each side to allow maximum tooth depth. <br>I was also looking at some 1" hollow steel balls I have in my shop that I use for sculptures. I could drill a row of holes around it's middle, tap them for threads and screw in spikes( sharpened bolts or ready-rod). To draw, you could hold it at the outside, with the spikes in the middle. You'd need a pretty sturdy pouch. Or have holes in the pouch to fit the spikes into. Chain mail pouch anyone?!?! <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_tongue.png" alt="tongue" longdesc="24">
     
  13. Zynk

    Zynk New Member

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Bert the Welder wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">Chain mail pouch anyone?!?! <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_tongue.png" alt="tongue" longdesc="24">
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    <span class="postbody"><br><br>This is exactly what I imagined since the beginning. Middle Ages ftw! <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_twisted.gif" alt="Twisted Evil" longdesc="13"></span>
     
  14. rashid100

    rashid100 New Member

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    lots of work but must be EFFECTIVE!!!!
     
  15. Antraxx

    Antraxx #7

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    Haven´t read this thread before.<br>I think you are misjudging something.<br><br>"IF" Spikes were more effective than a clean ball, then why doesn´t other ammunition have spikes? Blackpowderguns? Normal Guns? Blowdarts?<br>All i can think of where spikes where useful are SLOW flying objects, where the SPIKES do the damage. Like flails etc.<br><br>You can clearly see that a round object that is smooth and penetrates deep causes the effect you want (John and others are hunting with balls without any problems) on the contrary, a spiked ammo might even loose the energy faster and thus does not penetrate that far...causing bigger but not that lethal wounds.<br><br>On top of that are the problems of holding the spiked ammo in a pouch - possible missfireing - hurting yourself when carrying them around - more expensive - more complicated to make - and so on.<br><br><br>To sum it up: Why complicated when simple works fine?
     
  16. Zynk

    Zynk New Member

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Antraxx wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">Haven´t read this thread before.<br>I think you are misjudging something.<br><br>"IF" Spikes were more effective than a clean ball, then why doesn´t other ammunition have spikes? Blackpowderguns? Normal Guns? Blowdarts?<br>All i can think of where spikes where useful are SLOW flying objects, where the SPIKES do the damage. Like flails etc.<br>
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    <span class="postbody"><br><br>Because their goal is penetration. At least IMO, the intention here is kind of different. I explain it better on the next argument.<br><br></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Antraxx wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">
    <br>You can clearly see that a round object that is smooth and penetrates deep causes the effect you want (John and others are hunting with balls without any problems) on the contrary, a spiked ammo might even loose the energy faster and thus does not penetrate that far...causing bigger but not that lethal wounds.<br>
    </td></tr>
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    <span class="postbody"><br><br>In my opinion, the wanted effect is not a totally full penetration, but a nice penetration in addition to wounds all around the area the ammo hits, causing extended area damage. Also, if it doesn't penetrate like a smooth ammo, it gets nailed to the target, causing damage and pain. Think of a really big and heavy smooth steelball: does it penetrate a balistic gelatin? Not always. In fact, the bigger the ammo, more difficult it is to penetrate the target if the ammo is smooth. Using a spiked ammo the problem is relatively solved.<br><br></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Antraxx wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">
    <br>On top of that are the problems of holding the spiked ammo in a pouch - possible missfireing - hurting yourself when carrying them around - more expensive - more complicated to make - and so on.<br>
    </td></tr>
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    <span class="postbody"><br><br>I have to agree, you got a point. But the misfiring can only be found during tests. We can't really say that until its tested - and with different sizes of ammo.<br><br></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Antraxx wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">
    <br>To sum it up: Why complicated when simple works fine?</td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br><br>Because it is a badass looking ammo and it might be fun to play with it! <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_twisted.gif" alt="Twisted Evil" longdesc="13"></span>
     
  17. Antraxx

    Antraxx #7

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Zynk wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">... the wanted effect is not a totally full penetration, but a <font color="darkred">nice penetration in addition to wounds all around the area</font> the ammo hits, causing extended area damage. Also, if it doesn't penetrate like a smooth ammo, it gets nailed to the target, <font color="darkred">causing damage and pain</font>. </td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br><br>Huh? Are you some kind of sadist? Hunting is killing, not causing wounds and pain. <br>What kind of aim is that?<br><br>I can see a reason behind your following argument ("bigger ammo often does not penetrate and the spikes will to the damage the ammo did not") that is true, but the mistake was done before: to chosse a wrong (too big) ammo. Smal lheavy ammo always does the job.<br><br>Please don´t get me wrong, if this is just for the sake of fun and experiments just forget my comments, but <i>just today </i>i read an artikle in a local newspaper where ducks on a lake were found with professional blowdarts sticking out of their butt and throat. they suffer for several weeks now. I think this is what might really cause damage for such a community..and most of all i hate things like that very much. So please, don´t use such amunition against living creatures...again, if this is just for fun experiments forget about my posts <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" longdesc="2"><br><br>cheers</span>
     
  18. Zynk

    Zynk New Member

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    My intention with the post is not to harm anyone or any living creature... <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_eek.gif" alt="Shocked" longdesc="5"><br>It was just a bad way to emphasize the feeling I have about this ammo characteristics. My bad! <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_smile.gif" alt="Smile" longdesc="2">
     
  19. pelleteer

    pelleteer Middle Aged Delinquent

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    I think a version of Joerg's hinged 2-piece kydex pouch would work well for ammo such as this.
     
  20. brat boon

    brat boon New Member

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    <a href="http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=69&u=17481650" class="postlink" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/17/48/16/50/spikeb11.jpg" border="0" alt=""></a><br><br>maybe something like this!! <img src="http://illiweb.com/fa/i/smiles/icon_twisted.gif" alt="Twisted Evil" longdesc="13">