Speed ​​question again:

Discussion in 'General Slingshot Discussions' started by Thorsten Dr. b. c. (biero, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. Speed ​​question again:<br><br>Which fork spacing is best now?<br><br>If one compares the two clip's,<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q1uDfuJzaU" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q1uDfuJzaU</a><br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yg9RjauzY0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yg9RjauzY0</a><br><br>Has anyone ever tested? which fork width is the fastest, most accurate on what?<br><br>-<br><br>mal wieder Speed Frage:<br><br>Welcher Gabelabstand ist jetzt am besten?<br><br>Wenn man die beiden clip´s vergleicht,<br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q1uDfuJzaU" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q1uDfuJzaU</a><br><br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yg9RjauzY0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yg9RjauzY0</a><br><br>Hat das jemand mal getestet? welche Gabelbreite ist am schnellsten, welche am genauesten?
     
  2. DaveSteve

    DaveSteve New Member

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    I saw Bill's video and I remembered Gamekeeper John's video. They have different test results. I posted then the question on the SSF.<br><br>Did you get it from there?<br><br><a href="http://slingshotforum.com/topic/21898-fork-width-and-speed-two-different-test-results/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://slingshotforum.com/topic/21898-fork-width-and-speed-two-different-test-results/</a>
     

  3. CEZ

    CEZ New Member

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    I like wide forks and do believe that they allow you to shoot faster than narrow. Accuracy depends more on your release. TTF forks are believed to be more accurate and less powerful than OTT.
     
  4. FIAAO

    FIAAO Failureisalwaysanoption

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    I believe a wider fork gives you a higher velocity with exactly the same bands. I think Bills test were more accuratly performed.
     
  5. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    A wider fork reduces the velocity. Clearly. <br><br>BUT it also reduces the draw weight. Simple geometry! <br>At the same draw weight, the results are about even. <br><br>
     
  6. When the Bill is wide faster, but it is not as far as John's!<br>Bei Bill ist die breite schneller, sie ist aber noch nicht so weit, wie John´s!<br><br><br><br>geometry .... Power distribution ....<br>So far from Forks, one would have a power distribution to the front (intended) and left and right! As with Gamekeeper John!<br>But with Bill, it shows that - when the fork is not as far as in John, it will be faster!<br>-<br>question:<br>How wide it would be intended for a top speed? (Same bands, the same extract, the same pouch, same balls .... etc.)<br>-<br>It is best when the fork is as wide as the Pouch? because then the ball mr manages best? Then Währe a PFS no small distance well;-( (<br>Or why?<br><br>Or is the latex band itself in the way? The speed it would have to have actually reached already ....!<br>I must go to make high speed shooting, or anyone who has .....?<br>Have unfortunately "still" no Chrony!<br><br>-<br><br><br>geometrie .... Kraftverteilung....<br>also bei weitem Gabeln, hätte man eine Kraftverteilung nach vorne (gewollt) und links und rechts! Wie bei Gamekeeper John!<br>Aber bei Bill zeigt es, das - wenn die Gabel noch nicht so weit ist, wie bei John, es schneller wird!<br>-<br>Frage:<br>Wie breit müsste sie jetzt für ein Top Speed sein? (Gleiche Bänder, gleicher Auszug, gleicher Pouch, gleiche Kugeln .... usw.)<br>-<br>Ist es am besten, wenn die Gabel so breit ist wie der Pouch? weil dann die Kugel am besten herrauskommt? Dann währe eine PFS mit kleinem abstand nicht gut ;-((<br>Oder woran liegt es? <br><br>Oder ist das Latexband sich selber im Weg? Die Geschwindigkeit müsste es dann eigentlich schon erreicht haben....!<br>Ich muss mal high Speed Aufnahmen machen, oder hat jemand welche.....?<br>Habe leider "noch" kein Chrony!
     
  7. LW

    LW New Member

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>Failureisalwaysanoption wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">I believe a wider fork gives you a higher velocity with exactly the same bands. I think Bills test were more accuratly performed.</td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br><br><br><br>Excuse me, but I have to disagree. In my opinion the results of Gamekeeper<br>are more accurate.<br>Bill has unfortunately made an error in his measurement. He has used<br>very light bands or tubes here. And if he pulls back to his well known anchor point, the length of the bands<br>with the wider forks is longer then the length of the bands with small fork. <br><br><br>Longer stretch Bands, there from resulting higher speed.<br><br><br>If he had stretched the bands (wider/smaller fork) to its maximum, there will be<br>more speed on the smaller forks. (As you can see in the gamekeeper John video)<br><br><br>Please correct me if I'm wrong.<br><img src="http://i76.servimg.com/u/f76/18/08/39/77/bandla10.jpg" border="0" alt=""></span>
     
  8. FIAAO

    FIAAO Failureisalwaysanoption

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    Yes, I realise that now. Thanks for correcting me! One good thing with being wrong is that you will always learn something when you get corrected.
     
  9. Arturo Borquez

    Arturo Borquez Administrator

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    I guess I have the answer?? maybe the experiments where not conducted the same, it is clear that with the same elongation the speed will be the lineal retraction speed multiplied by the cosine of angle between the fork tip and the pouch end relative to the trajectory axis, on a wide fork the cosine is smaller (<1) than a narrow fork wich is near 1 (Jeorg's answer) but if the rubber is the same length and the draw length is the same, maybe a wider fork will give more speed because the rubber is a bit more stretched, 1cm more stretch can make a significant difference in stored power. The only way to conduct properly this experiment is to stretch equal rubber to equal force (with a scale).
     
  10. CEZ

    CEZ New Member

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    So Johns results were different because he couldn't pull the wider forks bands to the same anchor point like Bill did?<br>That would mean that for lighter bands that you want to stretch to their max, a wider fork can make them go faster, right?
     
  11. onnod

    onnod Im from Holland, isnt that weird?

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    i've been wondering the same thing, and i think this can be proved once and for all with a professional setup, changeable fork gap, a fixed base with a mark to where to draw, same draw time etc. <br>if i had a crony i would've done this myself allready, but i don't have one
     
  12. Arturo Borquez

    Arturo Borquez Administrator

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>CEZ wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">So Johns results were different because he couldn't pull the wider forks bands to the same anchor point like Bill did?<br>That would mean that for lighter bands that you want to stretch to their max, a wider fork can make them go faster, right?</td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br>That is what I suspect ...</span>
     
  13. LW

    LW New Member

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>CEZ wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">So Johns results were different because he couldn't pull the wider forks bands to the same anchor point like Bill did?<br>That would mean that for lighter bands that you want to stretch to their max, a wider fork can make them go faster, right?</td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br><br><br><br>Sorry, but that is not what I want to say, Johns results were different, because he pull<br>both bands to the max. Stretching point according to the set up off bands he uses.<br><br><br>(What was not possible in Bills movie, because he uses so light tubes, even I think<br>Bill instinctively pull both timse to the same anchor point)<br><img src="http://i76.servimg.com/u/f76/18/08/39/77/force_10.jpg" border="0" alt=""><br><br><br><img src="http://i76.servimg.com/u/f76/18/08/39/77/force_11.jpg" border="0" alt=""></span>
     
  14. tokSick

    tokSick Senior Member

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    I am with LW and like onnod said "a fixed base with a mark to where to draw, same draw time etc." would be more accurate for testing. That makes sense.
     
  15. <br><br>Moin moin,<br><br>It would have really time to try on a test bench.<br>-<br>A declaration could be what Melchior here: (to translate emergency with googel ....)<br><br><a href="http://slingshots.myfreeforum.org/archive/ergebnisse-schleuder-wissenschaft__o_t__t_1782.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://slingshots.myfreeforum.org/archive/ergebnisse-schleuder-wissenschaft__o_t__t_1782.html</a><br><br><br>had found somewhere:<br>If you pull the straps down to the absolute end, decreases the speed!<br><br>So fixed position, many theories but no practical erbrobte - disclosures substantiated.<br><br>No fork distances ...... or what is now the fastest ......?<br>The Schmalle is slow, over the broad again .....<br><br>He who sacrifices himself undgibt and times Tangible assets ......<br><br>-<br>--<br>---<br>-----<br>-------<br><br><br>Man müsste es wirklich mal, auf einer Testbank versuchen.<br>-<br>Auch eine erklärung könnte sein was Melchior hier: (Notfalls mit googel übersetzen lassen....)<br><br><a href="http://slingshots.myfreeforum.org/archive/ergebnisse-schleuder-wissenschaft__o_t__t_1782.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://slingshots.myfreeforum.org/archive/ergebnisse-schleuder-wissenschaft__o_t__t_1782.html</a><br><br><br>irgendwo festgestellt hatte: <br>Wenn man die Bänder bis zum absoluten ende zieht, nimmt die Geschwindigkeit ab!<br><br>Also feststellung, viele theorien aber keine praktisch erbrobte - untermauerte angaben.<br><br>Keine Gabelabstände ...... oder welche ist jetzt am schnellsten......?<br>Die schmalle ist langsam, die überbreite auch wieder.....<br><br>Wer opfert sich, undgibt und mal Handfeste werte......
     
  16. stej

    stej New Member

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>LW wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">
    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>CEZ wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">So Johns results were different because he couldn't pull the wider forks bands to the same anchor point like Bill did?<br>That would mean that for lighter bands that you want to stretch to their max, a wider fork can make them go faster, right?</td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br><br><br><br>Sorry, but that is not what I want to say, Johns results were different, because he pull<br>both bands to the max. Stretching point according to the set up off bands he uses.<br><br><br>(What was not possible in Bills movie, because he uses so light tubes, even I think<br>Bill instinctively pull both timse to the same anchor point)<br><img src="http://i76.servimg.com/u/f76/18/08/39/77/force_10.jpg" border="0" alt=""><br><br><br><img src="http://i76.servimg.com/u/f76/18/08/39/77/force_11.jpg" border="0" alt=""></span>
    </td></tr>
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    <span class="postbody"><br><br>That makes sense. I think this explains that well. <br>However, generally I think there will be also some other factor. Consider a slingshot with 2 meter gap and a slingshot with 2 CM gap.<br>Draw to you anchor point.<br>The bands on 2m slingshot will be much more elongated, for sure. But in this case I think the force will be distributed also much more to the left and right than on the 2CM slingshot. The resulting force vector (all forces joined together) might in same cases be smaller than on the 2CM slingshot.<br><br>Just my opinion. <br>Alos it depends a lot on how long you hold the bands pulled. If after several seconds of holding bands and aiming the bands are getting slower, that is another factor..</span>
     
  17. onnod

    onnod Im from Holland, isnt that weird?

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    just read the chapter in my physics book with vectors and stuff, and there was something that the wider the angle the less force aplied in> direction
     
  18. stej

    stej New Member

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    <table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0" border="0" align="center">
    <tr><td><span class="genmed"><b>onnod wrote:</b></span></td></tr>
    <tr><td class="quote">just read the chapter in my physics book with vectors and stuff, and there was something that the wider the angle the less force aplied in> direction</td></tr>
    </table>
    <span class="postbody"><br><br>Yes, generally I would agree. However there is also the draw length factor. Or better length of bands that are pulled to the anchor point.. More elongated -> bigger force.</span>