Slingbow arrow rest ideas?

Discussion in 'General Slingshot Discussions' started by EyAlter, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. EyAlter

    EyAlter New Member

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    Hi, I am thinking about making a very simple sling bow. Has anybody got experience with a fixed arrow rest? A.k.a just a hole for the shaft and 3 slots for the fletching?

    I would like to get rid of any whisker biscuits because you always have to order them, they get slapped by the rubber and are bulky.
     
  2. Withak

    Withak aka Whitehawk!

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    RuthieXXX uses shaving cream brushes on hers - search her posts on the forum to see how she does it. I've also seen people use a very simple setup of a metal key ring (loop) supported between the forks using rubber bands - it's cheap and easy to replace. I don't know that the slots for the fletching are necessary, really any basic support should do. There are several commercial supports out there that don't use slots, just a simple support made of plastic or metal.

    Of course, you could always wait for Joerg's Rambone Slingbow version to come out.
     

  3. EyAlter

    EyAlter New Member

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    I have seen all the brush ideas, but they look to messy and complicated in my eyes. Plus they can freeze if they get wet and that would make them not ideal for winter. Removing things that could fail is often the best option. So if I could make a slingshot out of a single piece that would be awesome. If the accuracy is alright.

    I have heard about Jörgs plans and tried to get involved but unfortunately he didn't reply to my messages. I guess he is very busy. I am a product designer so that would be the perfect job for me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2014
  4. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    I try to answer all of the messages I get, but sometimes that isn't possible. There are days where I just get too many. I wish my income from YT would be high enough for an assistant... but after taxes and cost, that is sadly not the case yet.

    The biggest issue of slingbows isn't the arrow rest. It is the string stopper. A real bow has a string that is under tension, so it stops automatically after just a few inches even if there is NO stopper at all.

    A slingbow usually has NO pretension at all. Therefore the string follows the arrow quite far, and the release is not clean. This leads to two problems:

    1. Accuracy sucks
    2. Mechanically vulnerable arrow rests will suffer

    You must solve the string stopper problem, usually by putting two blocks in the way of the string a good distance IN FRONT of the arrow rest.

    Then the bands won't follow the arrow, and you can use brush like arrow rests.

    If you don't like whisker biscuits (I found perfectly good replacement disks from an Italian online store at 6,50 €) then you can make those at home from three soft toothbrushes, or rubber tubes.

    But the string stopper issue MUST be sorted out.
     
  5. EyAlter

    EyAlter New Member

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    Just a stopper shouldn't be so difficult. But that makes the slingshot bulky aswell. I will make a prototype soon as a standard slingshot with a hole in the middle and an adjustable stopper.
     
  6. OzzyOsborne

    OzzyOsborne New Member

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    rubber tubes work better than flat bands on slingbows too - less 'follow through'

    I love whisker biscuits, but they're not cheap...

    here's one set-up I put together

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohsJ0YUqTvw[/ame]
     
  7. OzzyOsborne

    OzzyOsborne New Member

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    This is a great design for flatbands c/o Joerg:

    (I plan to copy this!)

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFoZcMhgyK8[/ame]
     
  8. EyAlter

    EyAlter New Member

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    I do want to use tubes. I stopped using flat bands because I just find it to much trouble to cut them and they broke all the time too. 15m of tube cost me 20€ and I can just cut off a piece.

    I have seen that design but I find it too bulky. Same with ozzys diabolo. Would be awesome to make one that still fits in your pocket. Got to try out how the band stopper affects the accuracy.

    Th
     
  9. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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    Tubes work OK on the heavier arrows, however they will never work as good as flats. If you cut the flats straight (untapered) they last as long as tubes and still are faster. Tubes trap the air internally, I think this isn't good for speed.

    If you employ a band stopper, you always end up adding bulk. You HAVE to stop the bands at least 10 cm before the desired release point as you need room for the fletching, so that amount of depth is just there. The only alternative is to use a ring or simply an edge as an arrow rest.

    Rings/Straight edges are highly inaccurate, because they are not delivering reproducible shots. Plus they are very bad for the fletching, will lead to damaged arrows very quickly.

    In the end you will look into a more guided "brush" like arrow rest again, that is my prediction. This means that about 10 to 15 cm of a "head" is the bulk you must accept. Less is simply a bad compromise.

    But hey, those are just my humble findings! Maybe I have overlooked the obvious. By all means, don't let me discourage you. The solution might be just around the corner. After all I am just an office worker with no engineering background.
     
  10. EyAlter

    EyAlter New Member

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    I will try to make the stopper, so you can fold it flat.

    About the ring stop I would like to make it so it has a cut out that matches the shape of the fletching. So 3 slots for the fletching and a hole in the middle for the arrow. Since the arrow does not rotate, it should fly right through.
     
  11. KSShooter

    KSShooter New Member

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    Ok, I'm new here, so take this for what it's worth.

    From the pic I've seen in this post, the bigger issue is making sure the arrow is "presented" to the rest properly - regardless of rest type. On a bow, the arrow is mocked to the string, making sure the arrow is properly aligned for the rest - whatever type it is. There is also a "fixed" distance between the draw length of the bow, in relation to the rest attached to the riser. Typically, in the 28-30 inch range. Rests generally have some adjustment to move them forward or back a bit, to better adjust the "presentation".

    Your sling requires you to manually make sure the arrow will be properly, make sure it is exactly 90 degrees to the rest, etc. All of those issues will lead to a couple of things:

    1. You'll shred out the whisker biscuit, or even toothbrushes, if the arrow isn't passing thru the rest properly. Note on the whisker biscuit the black section on the bottom. At least on my whisker biscuit (on my bow), that black section has stiffer bristles than the brown bristles (my whisker biscuit is probably 8-9 yrs old, and now needs replaced before hunting season this yr). Obviously, two of the vanes are to pass on either side of those black bristles, not through them. All vanes are to pass thru the brown bristles. On a bow, the arrow won't really be rotating yet as it passes thru the rest, so it misses those black bristles. On your sling bow, any small rotation of your hand and the nock in the pouch might cause the vane to go thru a portion, or all, of the stiffer black bristles.
    2. Misalignment of the arrow, either rotated in the pouch, or going thru the whisker biscuit at anything over a 90 degree angle, will result in more stress on the vanes, and cause "shredding" vanes at some point.

    The second issue also creates more wear on the whisker biscuit.

    I'd suggest a design more like Jeorg's crossbow slings that have some paracord in place of a bowstring (I've also thought of using an old bowstring for this purpose, so there's already the serving-wrapped area for nocking the arrow.

    Just my two cents, in thinking thru this for my own project in the near future. I've had problems with whisker biscuit shredding vanes on my bow anyway (somewhat due to age of whisker biscuit, but I've seen it happen on new biscuits and arrows too), so I keep looking for other arrow rests, similar to the toothbrush arrangement. Less friction and less stress on vanes. I shoot 250-300 arrows a year to prep for hunting season, so that's about 2400-2700 shots thru my existing whisker biscuit on my bow, set up at 67-68 lbs, just to give you an idea.
     
  12. EyAlter

    EyAlter New Member

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    Thanks a lot. Especially the part about the 90° angle gave me something to think about.
     
  13. JoergS

    JoergS Administrator

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  14. Will

    Will Thread Hijacker

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    I think the concern of adding bulk to the slingshot must be weighed against the desired result of the final product. Sure, anyone could put an arrow rest on a slingshot and make it shoot an arrow, but Joerg and KSS are absolutely right. The string must be stopped, and the angle of the arrow must be consistent for any dependable accuracy to occur. And, after all, I think most modern compound bows are not exactly compact (when compared to a slingshot).
    If size and bulk is your enemy, think of creating a 'takedown' system.' Utilize removable threaded rods with soft rubber caps as string stops. This will free up the arrow rest issue and allow for a compact shooter. I cannot think of a better design than the whisker biscuit for a slingbow rest (I prefer drop away rests on my compound bow though).
    Do some drawing and inventing! Make sure to show us what you come up with
     
  15. ruthiexxxx

    ruthiexxxx ruthiexxxx

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    these are my two simple, compact 'survival slingbows'
     

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  16. EyAlter

    EyAlter New Member

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    <iframe class="imgur-album" width="100%" height="550" frameborder="0" src="http://imgur.com/a/KdLOD/embed"></iframe>

    This is the first prototype. It is not optimized yet but that can wait until after I tested how it shoots. Can still make it a bit compacter and better looking.

    When you use it, The barrel alligns the arrow with the rubber. This should give you a perfect alignment. The rubber is stopped when it hits the barrel.

    You can also shoot it the other way around. Then you could use the barrel as a fishing reel.

    The plastic barrel slips over the handle to make it more compact. This design could also be injection molded like the Rambone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
  17. KSShooter

    KSShooter New Member

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    As they always say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Stumbled across this site today (I won't link the pic, as the site owner has explicitly stated copyright notices):
    http://falconslingbows.webs.com

    If you scroll down about halfway, you'll see a pic of him holding one of his sling bows fully "cocked". Note the angle of his wrist in relation to the arrow. While it does not appear that the sling bow he has in hand has a rest on it - the illustration is there.

    Having the arrow go through at an angle will degrade both the rest (if it's any type of "containment" rest, or a whisker biscuit), and will certainly degrade the fletchings of the arrow when it passes through at an angle. What would be interesting is to get a slow-mo pic of the entire firing of a sling bow. Because I'm assuming that once he fires the arrow, his wrist will twist and vary causing potentially more "angle to the dangle" than is present in the picture at full draw.

    Then there's the consistent accuracy problem. You might hit a target, but back up to about 40 yards......

    Not knocking the concept - it just has limitations, and expecting to do something to make the life of the rest longer is one of those limitations.

    I'm more interested in a more "traditional" cross bow setup, using a rail, etc. Just using bands instead of bow limbs.
     
  18. KSShooter

    KSShooter New Member

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    My Whisker Biscuit is the "non-replaceable" type. The newer Whisker Biscuit rests have an insert that can be replaced. Cost is right at $20USD for the replacement. A new rest is currently around $45-50USD. If you can pick those replacements up for only a couple euros in Germany - those are a STEAL if they are genuine Whisker Biscuit replacements.
     
  19. KSShooter

    KSShooter New Member

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    Interesting. But you do realize that the arrow will start to have some spin as soon as it's released? Not much, but you'll still have some, so those slots for the vanes are probably not large enough to account for that.

    And it still has the same problem as the Whisker Biscuit. If the arrow doesn't go dead-on thru that rest - it's going to mess up the vanes, and thus the shot. Wouldn't be surprised that at some angles, you'll lose vanes almost immediately with the first shot.

    The issue is you need a front rest (like Whisker biscuit), and a REAR rest to hold the arrow so it will go through the front rest at 90 degrees.

    Think of a bow - there are tools to make sure your bowstring is 90 degrees to your front rest - to deal with the problem I've outlined.

    Not knocking your idea - just some things to think about.