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SINdustrial designer
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566 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

Finally the PenPouch design is ready for sale. Available at Shapeways.

Webshop link here

Collected few Questions & Answers in the past few months, let me share it with you.

Is there a free download? I want to print it myself.
No, because this design is made for this technology and this material only. Some thicknesses are not even printable with a typical home printer. This material is flexible and strong at the same time. It was tested and developed to use these resources wisely. On the other side I like to be sure you can get the same quality as I get and use in practice.

Why I can't buy it from you?
Shapeways offers great shipping and service. I have crazy deadlines so let the professional service be in charge.

Why Shapeways?
I have a great relationship with them for years! I know they will contact me if needed. If I had any problem during development or a print failed they were really helpful and answered instantly.

Isn't it expensive?
Compared to a mass produced injection molding part? Yes, but it's a great and contemporary technology and let the design play the main role. Compared to gadgets at Shapeways it's priced to below average. I used to team up with my colleagues and order multiple parts in the same package. This reduces shipping costs.

What about Sunlight and UV?

Contacted with other builders and found a fellow who prints outdoor structures with the same material. He experienced no harm after 3 years of direct sunlight. So for this magazine you don't have to be concerned.

Do I have to use paint or varnish?
Not necessary, but advised to use 3-4 thin layers (spray) of varnish. I prefer transparent matte acryls. The material will "suck in" the varnish and colors will be more vivid. Beside that it may give extra UV protection depending on the type of varnish.

Ammo size?
Now it's only available for 12mm and 10mm diameter steel balls, tested on used and rusty pieces too. It's possible to use (precisely) cast 12mm leads, but I made no tests with those. If this design is "popular" I really opened to rebuild for various ammo sizes (3/8", 14mm, 16mm). A test and build session is around two months if everything goes fine. It needs at least two print sessions and CAD rebuild, and tests of course.

Thank you for your support guys!

Have a nice day/night,
Tremo

Seljan_D12_Magazine_Pen_001.jpg

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Seljan_D12_Magazine_Pen_004.jpg

Seljan_D12_Magazine_Pen_005.jpg

Seljan_D12_Magazine_Pen_inch_007.jpg

Seljan_D12_Magazine_Pen_mm_006.jpg

[ame]http://youtu.be/e8rpJKDlALk[/ame]

[ame]http://youtu.be/QLjvIdmdaNs[/ame]
 

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Loudest boom on Earth
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1,287 Posts
damn... I gotta say its great design and usefull. but 18€ for the m10 is way too expensive for me.. and shipping of 8€ to slovakia is expensive too for a little pen. Shame.
 

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SINdustrial designer
Joined
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566 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
damn... I gotta say its great design and usefull. but 18€ for the m10 is way too expensive for me.. and shipping of 8€ to slovakia is expensive too for a little pen. Shame.
Thanks for your comment! Have to say this "game" is pretty expensive for me too. I have to play with 0.1 mms to reduce the cost that is based on volume. Because of the high production cost there's not too much money on it for me. I do understand you, you can buy a handmade slingshot (nearly) for this price, there's no doubt.

But it's here and ready to go if someone needs.
 

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Senior Member
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2,513 Posts
There is no need to apologise for the price of something that is A) Using cutting edge technology and B) has a lot of research and design work in it.

You can put your ammo in your pocket in the same way as a slingshot can be a branch broken off a tree. Sometimes its nice to have something nice!

These are really cool little bits of kit and the 3/8 and 16mm ones will be interesting
 

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Junior Member
Joined
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478 Posts
they look pretty darn cool and handy, i understand that the price is what it is

but with shipping, i would think that the pen would fit in a envelop and that can be much cheaper than 8,-eu

anyway, cool design and idea, but sadly not form me...(just because of budget reasons, otherwise i would want one)
 

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aka Whitehawk!
Joined
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4,700 Posts
It's a great design Tremo. I can't buy one at the moment, but it's going on the list. I would love to see one in 3/8" myself. I may wait to see when that one becomes available. Yes, the price is high, but for the work that goes into an innovative design like this, it's reasonable. I used to do wedding photography on the side years ago. People always would ask why it cost so much for just a "few hours work". What they never took into account was all the preparation time before the wedding, scouting the site, learning names and family/friend relationships, maintaining my equipment, post shoot processing and several meetings with the couple. All in all, we really never made much doing the job, just enough to get some new pieces of equipment here and there, basically enough to keep my hobby going. I think many folks can't appreciate what goes into something like this unless they've done the same type of work themselves.
 

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Banned
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3,613 Posts
27 usd shipped is very reasonable, Tremo. I will be ordering one for myself for christmas! I'll have to order some 10mm steel to go with it, but its a great piece of kit and I wont be struggling with ammo in the back pocket anymore!
 

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Meh!
Joined
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1,124 Posts
Well I just ordered mine, $20 shipping to Australia but worth it as something like that would easily be $60 without shipping here in Oz.

I dont think you'll have any problems with 3/8" steel in this Withak, 3/8" is 9.5250mm so 10mm is only 0.475mm bigger. It depends on the width of the magazine jaws, from the pics I think it will work fine. For what its worth I bought a bag of Trumark 3/8" steel a little while ago and in my calipers it measures 10mm
 

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SINdustrial designer
Joined
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566 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Yes +1 :D

There is no need to apologise for the price of something that is A) Using cutting edge technology and B) has a lot of research and design work in it.

You can put your ammo in your pocket in the same way as a slingshot can be a branch broken off a tree. Sometimes its nice to have something nice!

These are really cool little bits of kit and the 3/8 and 16mm ones will be interesting
Thank you Scooby! It's really useful if a well thought note is shared! What I really like is discussion. I like to spend my time to work on unconstrained designs too. It's really uplifting beside daily work. Some people are dragged by 3D printing technology, some not. It's not a problem. You pointed out clearly in your post. I hope here at this forum we can develop affect the future of slingshots, beside reinventing tricks of craftsmanship.

Why this Pen was started?
I showed my slingshots to many noobs in the city. Even my students. Most of the reaction was: Oh that's interesting (Smile). Nothing else. When I show this pouch with the slingshots the say: Oh, that's freaking serious! :D. Tell me about that! And I better like it this way :)


they look pretty darn cool and handy, i understand that the price is what it is

but with shipping, i would think that the pen would fit in a envelop and that can be much cheaper than 8,-eu

anyway, cool design and idea, but sadly not form me...(just because of budget reasons, otherwise i would want one)
For me they shipping with the same 8 Euro. But that service is with UPS, boxed, with email notification, hourly tracking and to my door.

Side story
Since my postbox was hacked by the mailman and had to make an official complaint and officers came to review the case... I'm better with UPS shipping. Nathan Masters sent me a Scout slingshot to make his review (you can find it at Simple Shot's channel at YouTube). The slingshot was sent in an envelope, but was definitely larger than my mailboxes slice. So the mailman thought it's a "cool" thing to rip the door and place the slingie inside. It was a nightmare when I saw the mailbox and thought there's some damage with the frame I have to work width.


It's a great design Tremo. I can't buy one at the moment, but it's going on the list. I would love to see one in 3/8" myself. I may wait to see when that one becomes available. Yes, the price is high, but for the work that goes into an innovative design like this, it's reasonable. I used to do wedding photography on the side years ago. People always would ask why it cost so much for just a "few hours work". What they never took into account was all the preparation time before the wedding, scouting the site, learning names and family/friend relationships, maintaining my equipment, post shoot processing and several meetings with the couple. All in all, we really never made much doing the job, just enough to get some new pieces of equipment here and there, basically enough to keep my hobby going. I think many folks can't appreciate what goes into something like this unless they've done the same type of work themselves.
Wise thoughts Withak! The cost is not really for the design. May be enough for the prototypes but not sure :). I worked with these around 30hrs at night, so I forgot my own time instantly :D. Actually my profit is a price of a hamburger. If anyone is curious it's easy to calculate if you check material prices, handling fees etc. And of course it's including VAT (taxes).

About designer life background:
Good to know you're an experienced freelancer. This story is the same around the world. I had a software. Spent 2 months to learn it and it took me a full week just to make a correct installation for a 3 days work. And finally that job is still not payed after 7 months... But life goes on :)

27 usd shipped is very reasonable, Tremo. I will be ordering one for myself for christmas! I'll have to order some 10mm steel to go with it, but its a great piece of kit and I wont be struggling with ammo in the back pocket anymore!

Thank you Dolo!
I hope you will like it! Have a nice day!

Well I just ordered mine, $20 shipping to Australia but worth it as something like that would easily be $60 without shipping here in Oz.

I dont think you'll have any problems with 3/8" steel in this Withak, 3/8" is 9.5250mm so 10mm is only 0.475mm bigger. It depends on the width of the magazine jaws, from the pics I think it will work fine. For what its worth I bought a bag of Trumark 3/8" steel a little while ago and in my calipers it measures 10mm
Hi Obl1v1Aus! Thank you very much, I seen your order. It would be nice if you try it with 3/8 and comment here or via PM! Feel free to contact if needed!


Some general thoughts. Maybe you are interested about the background.

Just received price offers from other companies but all over this selling price. Actually I had some discussion few months back at the university with a guy who started selling office-home printers in my country. His business is going well, but the quality for that price is questionable. Actually they working for almost the same price but I seen some models from them with holes inside the walls :p. And those stuffs made cracking noise under squeeze. We had to organize a design related exhibition and that quality was a shame on us.

I even have contact with a Chinese printer company. But I had pretty hard experiences (previously on other topic) communicating with them. It was damn funny when a Chinese girl (named Angel) called me from Germany to contact me with the factory in Taiwan and asked for chromeplate thicknesses for motorcycle rims during I bought beer from the supermarket. And had to simultaneously speaking Hungarian to the vendor and in English with her about ISO and DIN suggested factory defaults. :)

Thank You all and have nite day mates,

Tremo
 

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aka Whitehawk!
Joined
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4,700 Posts
Well I just ordered mine, $20 shipping to Australia but worth it as something like that would easily be $60 without shipping here in Oz.

I dont think you'll have any problems with 3/8" steel in this Withak, 3/8" is 9.5250mm so 10mm is only 0.475mm bigger. It depends on the width of the magazine jaws, from the pics I think it will work fine. For what its worth I bought a bag of Trumark 3/8" steel a little while ago and in my calipers it measures 10mm
I'd like to hear from you too as to how it works out with 3/8" steel. I know it's close, but I don't know how tight the tolerances are on the pen itself. Since Tremo mentioned a model for 3/8", I assumed it may not work. But since he asked for your feedback, maybe it will. Let us know!
 

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Meh!
Joined
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1,124 Posts
I've had confirmation that my order is at the printer!! Eagerly awaiting an email from UPS to confirm shipping, I'll definitely let you guys know how it goes!
I might have to order another for 12mm as well...... For purely educational reasons of course! :D
 

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SINdustrial designer
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566 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I'd like to hear from you too as to how it works out with 3/8" steel. I know it's close, but I don't know how tight the tolerances are on the pen itself. Since Tremo mentioned a model for 3/8", I assumed it may not work. But since he asked for your feedback, maybe it will. Let us know!
I've had confirmation that my order is at the printer!! Eagerly awaiting an email from UPS to confirm shipping, I'll definitely let you guys know how it goes!
I might have to order another for 12mm as well...... For purely educational reasons of course! :D
We chopped few bearings of an American machine few weeks ago. Now my friend brought some to me of the 3/8" steel balls. Since all the dimensions are tight to the 10mm steel ball it's not working properly.

In conclusion D10 PenPouch is not suitable for 3/8" SBs. I will do my best and modify the rig to create a properly working 3/8" variation. Need few weeks to produce the test piece but will do asap.

Have a nice weekend :)
Tremo
 

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aka Whitehawk!
Joined
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4,700 Posts
We chopped few bearings of an American machine few weeks ago. Now my friend brought some to me of the 3/8" steel balls. Since all the dimensions are tight to the 10mm steel ball it's not working properly.

In conclusion D10 PenPouch is not suitable for 3/8" SBs. I will do my best and modify the rig to create a properly working 3/8" variation. Need few weeks to produce the test piece but will do asap.

Have a nice weekend :)
Tremo
I wondered about that. Your design looked like it had pretty tight tolerances (a sign of a good design in my mind), so it's not surprising that even that small variation in sizes would be an issue. I'll keep my eyes open for the 3/8" model. I can probably grab one around the first of the year, so it sounds like timing may be just right :)
 

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SINdustrial designer
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566 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Finished the CAD work and just made an order with the test pieces for 16mm and 3/8" of PenPouches.
Package will arrive after the second week of December. Will test it and see how they behave.

I'm thinking of 68cal Paintball, Deter-it version and still interested to make a D14mm. Please let me know if you have any suggestions!

Cheers, Tremo
 
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