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Discussion in 'General Slingshot Discussions' started by BoyntonStu, May 9, 2014.
Without straining and grunting, how many pounds can you draw 24" with one hand?
The most I have drawn is thirty
And that is pretty much the most I will need
I've drawn 40 pounds on my Chief AJ Elk hunter rig. But it's not fun to do. Hard to shoot very accurate with that draw weight.
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Stu, do you mean actually drawing out a real slingshot, or grabbing a handle (weightlifting equipment, crossbow string) and pull?
Slingshots are MUCH harder to draw as you have to do it with your hand in an awkward position, holding on to the pouch with thumb and index finger only.
On the "low row" machine in the gym, I can easily do 60 kg (132 lb) with one arm, 120 kg with both. The arrow shooter with the 58 lb bands, I can only draw it because of the mechanical release. A normal slingshot w/o release, 40 lb is my max. I can maybe do 50 lb, but bye bye accuracy.
Pounds don´t count.
A good balance between draw length and pounds, that´s the important thing.
I'm with Slingpit on this one, it's not the size of the draw, it's how you use it.
I wonder where I have heard that before...
I agree with you and slingpit though.
We think alike.
The challenge is how to replicate a 'curl' or other dead weight, weightlifting movement into a pump action rubber device.
When younger I could use both hands to squeeze a bathroom scale to its 250 lb limit.
At 75, I can still squeeze 140. Try it.
Why should pulling rubber be harder than pulling a bow string?
Many people can easily draw a 40 pound bow string to 30".
"The arrow shooter with the 58 lb bands, I can only draw it because of the mechanical release."
Your pump action also has a mechanical release.
It must be something else.
Mysterious world we live in.
Because rubber doesnt 'rest' but a bow string does. Rubber 'stacks' more than a well set up bow.
I usually dont draw out more than 10-15 pounds since I like accuracy much more than just power. But I am not 100% sure since I did not weigh my draw.
At a rd. 100cm draw I draw a weight of rd. 2,8kg,
which is approximately 6lb. to accelerate my little
8mm steelballs to rd. 100m/sec. (Chrono cell-app)
I use double theraband black bands, 18 to 13mm tapered,
active length is 25 cm.
Next set is prepared with double TB blue, 20 to 15mm
edit: 2.4kg, which is rd 5 lb.
I expect it to be even faster (it´s the old
TB recipe, 13,8cm wide bands, got almost three rolls
of that stuff now.. )
I can pull about 65 lbs comfortably on a bow. Slingshot with hammer handle is about the same. However, a slingshot set that strong is not accurate and requires massive ammo to reduce bandslap. Basically, it's not practical. I set all of mine to comfortably shoot 3/4" to 1" steel ammo at half butterfly. Only the CONUS is set lighter and for full butterfly with 3/8" ammo.
Is a 40 lb pull on a scale the same pull for rubber and for string?
If there is stacking, the final force at full draw is the same as if there was no stacking.
Stu, you are right, it is efficiency we must seek.
The only problem is that the shooting position people normally prefer isn't well suited for the cocking motion.
Maybe the solution is to design a weapon that shoots well from the best possible cocking position? That will require some thinking outside of the box. Slingshot crossbows that look entirely different than gunpowder based rifles.
If you can pull 65 pounds on a bow and Joerg cannot comfortably pull 40 pounds on a slingshot, we are missing something.
A quick test is to mount a slingshot on a bow fork and see what it feels like to draw it.
What I "see" is to hold the X-bow strong armed in the left hand (like a bow handle) and draw back the slide on a pump action as if you are pulling a string.
Remember, a bow pulls balanced top and bottom of the hand while a slingshot pulls only on the top (or to one side). Sometimes the hand cannot handle the force of the twisting motion being exerted. While compensating for the twisting force you lose accuracy control.
I must clarify, I only use a long bow which is continually "elastic" during a pull (similar to the way a slingshot performs). The compound bows do all sorts of funky things when you pull them which I have never cared for personally.
I'm SO glad you said that about compound bows. I was beginning to think it was just me being silly. I am gagging for a 'real bow', either recurve or longbow...but I really don't like my husband's compound bow. To me it just 'doesn't feel right'.
I don't know what I pull in terms of poundages. If I remember rightly the RTS that made me nervous of slingshots was with 4 a side Tex Express bands. I do sometimes still shoot my starships but they only have 50/80 as they rely on the extra length for speed rather than heavy rubber.
On my slingbows my absolute favourite is Theratube Silver which I think is justified as my arrows are quite heavy (around 1100 grain) although I sometimes use heavily pseudotapered Theratube Black or plum Dubdub.
The limit here is, as Joerg pointed out, what one can pinch between finger and thumb which is a LOT less than one can actually pull on a gym machine with a nice handle to grip.
I've recently got my first mechanical release and am not sure what I think of it yet. For most of my slingbows I'm sticking to what I know best...drawing by gripping the arrow between fletching and nock, but my arrows are much fatter than bought arrows and I wrap latex around where I grip and often wear 'gripper gloves' to improve my hold.
Never gave it a thought. I always went by feel with the 3 bears test. Too little, Too much, Just right. Most of my bands are 20X15 MM on a 9' active.
Stu, a pump action motion is just different than drawing out a bow. You use entirely different muscles for that.
The pump action method is NOT the way to go, believe me. Do not forget that it would not even be sufficient IF your 38 lb would be manageable with a pump sled once (which isn't the case), as you'll have to be able to do that again and again in quick succession.
The only way I see for the weapon you are after is the press-against-chest two handed cocking, in a rowing motion.
Much like my 9" nail shooter, with the exception that my new method to push up the ammo in the mag would allow you to use the entire length of the weapon for acceleration. That would dramatically increase the power.
Using front heavy bolts instead of these nails would make them fly true, and also they'd be heavy enough for serious damage.
How many pounds pulled for 39 Joules?
Is there a way to "handle" a pump action?
What were you pulling here?