First Slingshot-Experiece since Childhood

Discussion in 'General Slingshot Discussions' started by culinariccockroach, Apr 3, 2016.

  1. So after watching a lot of Joergs Videos i decided that it was time to get into the Slingshot-Sport again and decided to get myself a Scout instead of a Rambone because it seemed to be the more versatile of both.

    So i ordered a green Scout, 9&12mm Steel and .445 lead-balls including a dual-TBG-Bandset for the heavier ammo.
    So i started with the included 0.30 latex the Scout came with and it was pretty ok although weak until i realized i had to cut it so that it fitted my 31" draw, after that it worked fine but the 9mm ammo didnt have that punch i was looking for so i upped to 12mm Steel and the first shot was directly a forkhit that busted the front-facing part of my flipcap into a million pieces, after that i was really depressed as the corner of the slingshot a a pretty nice dent and the flipcap was atleast partly broken or so i thought... i just kept using the flipcap without the frontpart and to this day i didn't notice a difference, other than the fact that i had to cut the screw a few mm so that it didn't look out of the back of the flipcap.

    So after this i went back to 9mm ammo and everything was fine and then i switched back to 12mm and forkhit, forkhit and another forkhit... it was really depressing and so i skipped the 12mm steel and switched to 12mm lead which interestingly behaved complettly different and i had maybe 1 forkhit in about 100shots, and it just deformed instead of denting the slingshot which in my book is a big PRO.

    Sadly the Latex-Band had developed a hole near the pouch so that i had to switch to the 2xTBG which not only power-wise weren't meant for 9mm ammo but even the pouch itself had to big a hole to fit a 9mm without slipping so that i had to decide to use 12mm Steel or Lead, so i stayed with lead and kept practicing.
    Suddently the yarn holding pouch and TBG got lose and i had to re-tie as i wasn't too happy of not being able to use 9mm ammo anymore i thought that if i had to retie one side i might as well switch the pouch complettly and use the default-pouch the Scout came with.

    And well, i switched it (thanks Mr.Hayes again for is simple to understand tutorial) and also switched to TTF(Outside the Forks?) and i am stunished, as not only is it a lot more accurate but i hadn't had a single forkhit nor handslap with any of the ammo i have laying around here, but i will have to buy more Theraband Gold as this bandset is also slowling developing a hole in the center of the band near the pouch that might fork out for another 20-50Shots before it tears complettly.



    Long story short, here are some Questions! :D


    1) As mentioned above the front-Part of the Flipcap broke on one side, is there a reason not to keep using it without it anymore?

    2) As i mentioned i switched the pouch from the Scout-Latex Bandset onto the Dual-TBG Bandset and would like to know if there is any reason not to do so? I noticed that it doesn't look as nicely folded as with the original pouch.

    3) Where i'm from it is legal to hunt small-game (rabbits, grey squirrels etc.) and therefore i would like to know which bandset and what kind of ammo would be the best for the task.
    Out of the ammo i now own i'am thinking about 12mm Lead or M8-Hexnuts filled with solder (the medium-sized ones about as large as a 9mm Steel Ball), while the 12mm Lead has a massive punch with my Dual-TBG it has not that much penetration (doesnt penetrate through a steel-can buttom) whereas the solder-filled hexnuts although obviously smaller go through a hard steel can without much afford and leave scary holes behind :)

    Heavy Punch vs Scary Holes?
    I also thought about bigger hexnuts in the size of a regular 12mm leadball but am afraid of even thinking of getting a forkhit with that kind of ammo as it would result in a devastating result on the fork and/or my face/hand)

    4) As i have to buy more Theraband anyways i would like to know how many bandsets i get out (lets say duals @ 31" draw) of 2meters of Theraband Gold, and if it would make sense to order Theraband Black too, as i've heard that those a the preferred hunting-bands for many out there.



    Thank you kindly for your help!
     
  2. bigdh2000

    bigdh2000 Administrator

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    Welcome to the sport. I will let others answer the question.
     

  3. TheNewSlingshotGuy

    TheNewSlingshotGuy AKA- "The Raccoon"

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    Welcome! The scout was my first slingshot too, and i also experienced fork hits at first. This was about 3 years ago! I'm pretty proud to say i haven't had a forkhit in a couple years. Once you learn the mechanics of shooting a slingshot, and learn to use and make bands correctly, they go away! Just watch your fingers (and windows) until then.

    Some may say i'm quick to judge, but i don't think your'e capable of fairly and cleanly taking game at this point. It' safe to say that if you can't hit a ping pong ball at 10 meters 9/10 times, your'e not accurate enough to hunt. Don't be like the lowlives you see on YouTube under the channel name "Urban Hunterz". They are a disgrace to humanity, and they think it's okay to injure and maim animals. Besides the point, nobody on this forum condones hunting, and it isn't spoken of. We only kill cans here! :)
    Unless you rely on it for a foodsource, or you have pests that are effecting your daily living, don't hunt. But if you do, use a powerful airgun instead. It allows for cleaner harvesting of your prey, with less suffering and or risk of injuring the animal without killing it.

    As for your questions:

    1) No, you don't have to use your flipclips, you can attach the bands to the slingshot with rubber strips.

    2) The only thing you need to watch for is that the leather does not rip or stretch excessively, You should be fine.

    3) Read above

    4) In my 3+ years of shooting, iv'e gone through about 4 meters of Theraband Gold, and 1 meter of Theraband Blue. A few tube bandsets here and there.....But that's just me! Jeorg goes through endless amounts of TBG. Start out with 2 meters, and see how long it lasts you. You'll likely go through it relatively quickly as you will be experimenting with different bandset configurations to find what suits you. Don't get mixed up in Theraband black right now, stick with the gold as it's simpler and easier to work with. You don't need two layers of Theraband Gold for 12mm steel or .45 lead. 1 inch (25mm) straight cut or 32.5mm x 25mm tapered gold will give you power to spare. Have you tried half-butterfly or full-butterfly draw yet? When you get re-acquainted with slingshots and are comfortable when shooting, try cutting and drawing you band to 40 inches or more.
     
  4. Hey i just purchased 3meters of Theraband Gold & Theraband Black and of course a fiskers roll cutting device.

    I agree with you that i ain't there yet accuracy wise to ethically taking game without the chance of hurting it instead of killing it.
    And yes they are a pest here, as they keep eating the veggies i got growing in my Cabin (located in the Woods not were i actually live) which is why i decided to change the game, actually before i even got thinking about slingshot as i am a recurve bow-hunter, which was the prefered method of taking actions before, which worked pretty fine, except for the fact that it was a terrible mess to drive up there from the city with a bow attached around your back as the terrain is just accessable by foot or -as i do it- by Quad.

    I though about a Take-Down Recurve for that same reason but a good Take-Down Recurve just isn't affordable for me (yet).

    Regarding "Urban Hunterz"-Thing i had to google it until i knew what you were refering too, and watched a few videos and to be honest what i've seen seemed to be okay in my book.
    As long as they kill their game quick and painless and eat it, and not just for the killing thats alright in my book.
    I've seen a lot worse, like bow-fishing just for killing sake and trowing the fish back into the water...

    Back to the slingshot:

    When i talked about keeping using the Flip-Caps i meant if there is any worries in keeping using them when without the small piece in which the "head of the screw" sits embedded so to speak (excuse my terrible english), i know that it would be possible to tie them instead.

    I've been practicing quite a lot yesterday and today and the groups are getting tighter, if it wouldn't be for the occasionally awkward forkhit in 1 out of 100 Shots that don't seem to make sense as i can't track back what it was.

    Sadly this time it chipped a bit of the fork of pretty much in it's center a little to the left about the size of a penny.
    I did a stress-test and hanged about 20 pounds of weight on the left forkside and it seems to be okay so far, and it was yet again a steel-ball which is the reason why i stop using them entirely.

    The Question now is what kind of plastic is the Scout made of as i am thinking of fixing the little chipped (really a small piece not bigger than a penny) piece with a little bit of epoxy and a bit of glas fibermat so that even further forkhits wont be too critical on the slingshot, until i've made a multiplex copy to replace it.

    Btw. is there like a calculator to know what kind of draw-weight is to be expected at 'x'-Drawlenght with TB(G or B) or would the easiest way be to use a hanging scale?


    (Btw. is hunting with the Slingshot as a topic tolerated here or not? Just asking as it wasn't clear)
     
  5. TheNewSlingshotGuy

    TheNewSlingshotGuy AKA- "The Raccoon"

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    "Urban Hunterz" are scum. In the majority of their videos, they maim animals and make unclean kills. They also use illegal methods. There is a video on there of them using a potato cannon to hunt little critters, disgusting. There are also videos where they take upwards of 3 shots to kill a squirrel, before letting it drown while injured in a swamp. They take pot shots at rabbits with blowguns, and the poor animals run away and escape with a dart through their hind qaurters. It doesnt really matter if you eat your kills when you are cruel to the animal. It's an excuse. Hunting isnt discussed on this forum.

    The scout is made of glass fiber reinforced plastics, and is incredibly strong! Although, you should test it with more than 20lbs. I would put it in a vice, tie paracord around the fork tips, and PULL as hard as i could. If it doesnt break, your'e good to go!
    The older first generation flip clips don't have a hole going all the way through. The newer flip clips have a hole going all the way through. If you have the older flip clips, the screw would go too far into the clip without the plastic shoulder washer. If you have the new flip clips that look like the one in the picture, it could work without the little plastic piece on the back. I just tried it with my scout, have a look:
     
  6. TheNewSlingshotGuy

    TheNewSlingshotGuy AKA- "The Raccoon"

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    These are tge newer flip clips.
    With the cap:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Without it.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Hey thanks for your fast reply, you guys have been quite helpful so far! :)

    I really didn't dig into those guys too much, but if that's infact true than they are scum you should always have respect for the game you hunt.

    And no worries hunting-related topics won't be mentioned again!

    Regardings the Flip-Clips thats exactly what i mean, to fix that problem i simply cut the screw down so that it wouldn't go all the way through out of the back.
    It's also great to hear that its glassfibre reinforced plastic as this stuff out of experience isn't too prone to cracking that reach through the complette frame/material i also thought that this was the case as the chipped piece seemed to contain fibres.
    I will somehow try that as i don't have a vice, maybe hanging in some training weights and simply pulling it up with my bare hands IF that works out the scratch gets patched out with glassfibre and epoxy :)

    Btw. totally different question, what kind of bands would be suitable for Paintballs as they are pretty large but weight nearly anything at all?
    TBB or TBG?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
  8. TheNewSlingshotGuy

    TheNewSlingshotGuy AKA- "The Raccoon"

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    Your'e welcome! Can i see a picture of the damge? You probably don't need to do anything to it. Still, you should test the slinshot with by hanging at least twice as much weight as the heaviest bands you can safely handle, at least 40lbs.

    As for the paintballs, you probably have .68 caliber. I used to shoot those all the time! I used tapered TBG, about 35mm tapered to 20mm or so. Stretch them to near maximum, about a 5;1 stretch ratio. Those will give you great speed, and will last a decent while if you take great care when you tie them to avoid making the ties too tight, and to use a relatively soft pouch. You should also use small thin strips of Theraband blue to tie them instead of string, it lasts longer. Use a pouch thats as wide as the paintball and will wrap around the front with about 10mm of room on both sides.

    You could also use regular bands that you would make for 9.5mm steel, as they weigh the same as .68 caliber paintballs. 20mm tapered to 18 or 15mm will work okay. But you won't get as much speed, which is best for
    paintballs.

    I might make a short video to show you how later.
     
  9. bigdh2000

    bigdh2000 Administrator

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    +1 on everything TNSSG said.

    Welcome.
     
  10. seppman

    seppman Folding-Ladder Expert

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    HA! That's exactly what I do for years already! And I have just recently learned a word for that: I am a secondary-vegetarian - I eat stuff that eats vegetables! :)

    Oh an welcome to the forum! maybe I could add: use a proper (self healing) cutting mat to cut your bands on, if you not already do so. It will extend the life of your rollercutter's blade enormously!

    P.S.: I have seen and heard people eat insects like grasshoppers or praying mantis... but are there really things like culinaric cockroaches? :)
     
  11. Hey i will see to it, that i upload a picture.


    And yes the paintballs i got here are normal .68cal ones and i would like to aim for max. velocity with them instead of durability.
    Thats why i heard that Theraband-Black would be the right choice for light-weight projectiles like paintballs which are about 3grams.

    If so how many layers and ???mm tapered to ???mm per Layer?
    Or should i stay with TBG? But now that the TBB arrived i will have to put it to good use so i guess i would make different sets of bands for different tasks?

    Does this sound about right?

    TBB for light-weight high velocity projectiles like Paintballs & 7&8mm steel
    TBG single for 9-12mm Steel
    TBG x2 for heavy projectiles like 12mm Lead and more & hunting


    And regarding the Cockroaches yep you can basically eat every insect there is that ain't toxic ( https://edibug.wordpress.com/list-of-edible-insects/ )
    Simply remove those legs, deep-fried and well spiced and you are good to go ;)

    Here you go: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNL6Bqawua4[/ame]
     

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    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  12. TheNewSlingshotGuy

    TheNewSlingshotGuy AKA- "The Raccoon"

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    I would use TBG over TBB specifically with paintballs for one reason, because the Gold is more durable. If you have a fork hit with a paintball, the Gold will stand up to the paint better. I'm assuming you will only shoot paintballs outside on dry sunny days, and the Gold is more resisitant to UV rays and the elements. Those benefits outweight the slight increase in speed you get with Black or Blue.

    When i shot paintballs, i used somewhere between 30-40mm tapered to somewhere between 18-22mm. I made the bands so that they would stretch 5x their length at my 30 inch draw, about 6 inches long with 3/4 inch extra for tying them to the pouch and forks.


    When it comes to flatbands, i think you should avoid multiple layers if you can, as it is much simpler and the bands seem to last longer in wider single strips as opposed to multiple narrower strips.
    You can use Theraband gold for ANY ammo as long as you cut it to the right dimensions. But, here are some reccomendations:
    For BB's and steel balls up to 10mm, Theraband black is very good in single layer. I haven't used Black though, so i don't have specific dimesions for bandsets with Black. Someone else here can help with that.

    All of these dimensions are for SINGLE LAYER TBG:

    TBG 15mm tapered to 10mm is good for 8mm steel.

    TBG 20mm tapered to 18 or 15mm is great for 9-10mm steel

    TBG 23mm tapered to 19mm is good for 11mm steel

    TBG 30mm tapered to 25mm is great for 12mm steel and .45 (11.5mm) lead. 25mm straight non-tapered will also work well.

    I imagine 30mm tapered to 28mm SINGLE LAYER would work pretty well for 12mm lead.
     
  13. TheNewSlingshotGuy

    TheNewSlingshotGuy AKA- "The Raccoon"

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    Here is a picture of my scout, i havent shot it in years! My first fork hits were in tge same spot! [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  14. Except that i also have a little ditch in the upper corner other than that your forkdamage seems to be a bit better distributed, i gotta work on that :D
    Although at a close look it seems like you had hit the upper corner once too, just on the opposite side.

    Thanks btw. for you list!
    I think i have read that you can also fold bands into the right dimensions instead of cutting stripes and tieing them together, is that right and would that be preferable?

    Guess i start with TBG 30mm to 25mm taper and check how the flight-properties are with each given projectile, and then simply re-cut&re-tie them and do the test all over again, that way i just use up material for one bandset instead of cutting four different bandsets during the trial-and-error period :)


    Btw. is it just me or does TBG smell a bit like white-chocolate of sorts, since i recieved those bands i can't stop smelling them as they remind me of white chocolate :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2016
  15. bigdh2000

    bigdh2000 Administrator

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    White chocolate - why do you think we all like it so much?
     
  16. TheNewSlingshotGuy

    TheNewSlingshotGuy AKA- "The Raccoon"

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    FINALLY!!!
    Someone who also thinks TBG smells like white chocolate! :)

    I only see one problem with your method of cutting and re-tying the same bandset. It's very difficult to cut the ties without nicking or damging the bands in some way. And if you judt decide to cut them off, your bandset will be too short in no time.

    Some things you should consider:
    Get a self healing cutting mat at least 20 inches by 20 inches.
    Make sure your roller cutters are razor sharp with no kinks.
    Use a thin straightedge to guide the cutter and make perfectly straight cuts.

    i'm gonna make a short video for you soon.
     
  17. seppman

    seppman Folding-Ladder Expert

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    Damn... I stay with bacon! That video.... TNSSG? Are cockroaches "kosher"? :)
     
  18. TheNewSlingshotGuy

    TheNewSlingshotGuy AKA- "The Raccoon"

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    Nope! The only insect that is kosher is a specific species of grasshopper.
     
  19. I didn't know that the "kosher"-thing extended even to insects :) Guess i'll read into that while i grab me a box of deep fried and peppery spiced mealworms as i got no Lays here ;-)
     
  20. A little update on my experiments so far:

    I've bought a used but in mint condition Rambone with an new dual Bandset of TBG.
    The interesting thing though is that i haven't tuned it in so that elongation-wise iam at 320% and my given draw-lenght and therefore about 180% less than the so called optimum.

    But that's not even the interesting thing.
    I've been target shooting indoors at a distance of about 12meters and with the untuned bandset and its 320% elongation i can easily (sounds a bit cocky as a noob, i know) hit dead-on on a 3/8inch PVC-Pipe i actually destroyed about a Meter (2cm each cut) of that kind of Pipe doing my target-practice which is great really. the problem (is it even to be considered one?) now is that with a bandset tuned in to my draw therefore about 500% of elongation i am a lot less accurate where as where i hit dead-on 9 of 10 times with the "too long" bandset i maybe hit about 3 of 10 Times with the tuned bandset.

    First i thought that this might be because of the additional draw-weight of the shortened band which is the reason why i compared a "tuned in to 500% elongation" TBG-Single with a not tuned in 320% Elongation Dual-TBG (both with exact Taper) which is about the same draw-weight at anker-point and still there was this big difference in accuracy between both bandsets on the (obviously) same Rambone.
    I tried both bandsets on the Scout too and it was not such a big difference there although my overall accuracy with the Rambone was a lot higher to be honest.

    Any clue what might be the culprit that causes that kind of a difference?
    On the Rambone i use the corner of the Flip-Clip as a notch sight and adjust accordingly to where the first shot hit and with the "too long" bandset it works a treat, it actually worked that well that after i lost all of my PVC-Pipe i picked a screwdriver and used it's handle as the target, later on even the screwdriver (the metal-part) itself as the target which from the diameter would be somewhere about half 3/4 of a Cigarette and it worked in 3 out of 10 Shots as the "interestingly" formed lead-bullets would show.

    Long story short is there any reason why i should shorten my bands nonetheless?
    I mean theoretically such a bandset should be more durable and there is still more than enough punch in it at 10-12Meters distance with 12mm lead.


    P.S.
    I almost forgot, i am pretty sure that i did about 400 Shots with the Rambone today and stunningly there was just one very very minor forkhit right on the center that i didn't even notice to be honest until i've seen a very very small line of lead.
    And so far i have to say its a lovely design that might look a bit like a butt-plug (see for yourself) when you turn it upside down, but other than that it just fits in your palm like nothing else, even with very small hands like mine.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016