Battle of Varus

Discussion in 'Knives, Swords, and other bladed weapons' started by Schultz, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    Today I visit the Place from the Varian disaster.
    And now I have Upload some Pics and a Video,
    to show you this 2000 Years old Bladed Weapon, and also the Battelfield.

    »Quintili Vare, legiones redde!«

    »Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!«, Emperor Augustus apparently said after receiving the message about his governor's defeat in Germania (Sueton, Vita Divi Augusti 23. – They were never given back. More about this on the ancient battlefield of Kalkriese


    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gla35yqj_nk[/ame]

    I hope you like it.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  2. Wanimator

    Wanimator Banned

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    A lot of peasent weapons. Cool.
     

  3. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
  4. Will

    Will Thread Hijacker

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    This is excellent! Historical areas are always fascinating, and this one looks just amazing. I really enjoyed this, it felt like I was actually there! That is really beautiful forest as well, it would be a nice place to walk.
    Thank you for filming and sharing this with us!
     
  5. Wanimator

    Wanimator Banned

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    I'm surprised at what they did to the Romans, my theory is that the Romans weren't prepared for the "Berserker" combat. The Billhooks would be devastating against the Roman Shields as well, it would be horrible having barbarians rip at you with billhooks and axes of sorts, Also the conditions would be horrible for the Roman's grouping.
     
  6. Great hostoric!

    Great video!

    Great photos!

    I have to go there when i be next time in nrw!

    Where is that museum!

    Joe
     
  7. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    Thank you! I´am glad that you like it ;)

    And this is the last try from Rome to enter the Part from Germania behind the Rhine.
    The Battle at the Harzhorn. --> http://www.roemerschlachtamharzhorn.de/the-roman-battle-at-the-harzhorn.html
    As far as I know, the Roman troops have then finally retreated behind the Rhine.

    In Kalkriese is also an Exhibition with Gladiators Fights that I'll be watching next time.
    And for the Guys that only now the German Word, "Krieg". The right Pic means "Never again War".
    I hope you like it.
     

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  8. Weapons?

    What do you mean?

    In Picture 5, 6, and 7 are garden, stone and wood tools!


    Joe
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2013
  9. Wanimator

    Wanimator Banned

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    Peasents used those as weapons in war. With slight modifications.
     
  10. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    Spear, Gladius, Shields, Armor. You can see everything at the first Pictures but only Roman weapons were found.
    I know you 2 are Really Big Weapon Experts but please not again these Discussions in my Thread... Read the Homepages and you know all what you want...
     
  11. FIAAO

    FIAAO Failureisalwaysanoption

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    Sadly, I do not know a jota about the "Battle of Varus". A pity, as I'm actually very fond of History, it's one of my favourite subjects :)

    I assume it was a battle between Romans and Germans? (Seeing the Roman armor/ weapons :) )
    It seems like a very nice musem! I will go there if I ever find my way to Germany! Thanks for uploading, Schultz!

    And I'm with Joe about the tools :)
     
  12. dannytsg

    dannytsg Senior Member

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    Some very nice pictures. Thank you for sharing.
     
  13. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    Thanks Guys! I´am glad that you like it! :D

    Yes its the Battle in the Teuteburg Forest, where three Roman legions get destroyed.
    After this battle the Roman try only 200 later to get over the Rhine after German Attack´s, at the Harzhorn. It´s not sure how Win the Battle but they have never Captured the Part behind the Rhine.

    When someone is interessted, here is a little bit History about the First Battle and on the Homepage you can find all Information about the German and Roman Soldiers, Weapons, Tactic and more Stuff.
    Or you watch the Movie from my Second Post. The first Part show the Facts and the Second the War ;)


    http://www.kalkriese-varusschlacht.de/en/

    »Quintili Vare, legiones redde!«

    »Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!«, Emperor Augustus apparently said after receiving the message about his governor's defeat in Germania (Sueton, Vita Divi Augusti 23. – They were never given back. More about this on the ancient battlefield of Kalkriese


    History of the Varus Battle
    The Romans had imagined something else...

    ... when they set off in Germania, now pacified to a great extent, in the autumn of 9 AD in order to return to the comforts of their hibernal camp near the Rhine river. As the weather became colder some of them may already have dreamed of relaxing in the thermal baths and being in cosy rooms with under floor central heating. - One thing after another:

    In the last two decades BC the Romans have entered step by step into Germania. At first, many indigenous tribes had defended themselves but were consequently suppressed. Others concluded peace treaties and enjoyed the achievements of the Roman culture, one says...

    Since 7 AD Germania had a »proper« governor, just like any other regular province of the Roman Empire. His name was Publius Quintilius Varus and he was a much respected man in the capitol Rome and last but not least, he was experienced: A few years earlier, he had already been a governor of the rich province of Syria. Violent riots arose after King Herod’s death – who had been the King of Palestine. Varus brought the province under control, punished the rebels and re-established the structures of power. He surely was the right man for Germania where the Romans occasionally encountered some resistance. Though evil tongues said that above all he personally enriched himself in Syria. But he who has success is also the object of envy…

    In the past years Varus had begun to introduce the Roman jurisdiction to Germania. He travelled around and held court days regularly. The local tribes seemed to become accustomed to this slowly and many responded to this offer gladly. Not quite so popular was the topic “taxes”. Just like any other province, Germania was liable to tax, too. Varus did his best to put this into action. In doing so however, incomprehension and sometimes even hatred struck against him. However, resistance was completely futile: For the subdued provinces, the duty was obligatory and the necessity of taxes was clear to even every child in Rome …

    After a mainly unspectacular year - with only a few skirmishes here and little grumbling of the local people there - Varus thought he had completed his duty in Germania for this year. He and his followers started to make their way back to the river Rhine. The route was familiar; until now no particular incidents. However, Segestes, who had a good reputation and was well disposed by the Romans, visited Varus in the evening. He obviously was worried and tried to warn Varus of an imminent attack. However, when Varus heard who he was cautioned against, he shook his head and rejected the warning: He knew Arminius and his father Segimer, both noble Cherusci and in possession of Roman citizenship, for a long time. Every now and then, they dined together and he had never heard complaints about Arminius’ performance as an officer in the Roman Army, neither did he himself have a reason to complain. After all, Arminius had grown up and was educated in Rome. His military career was promising. He had even been accepted to the Roman equestrian class. Why should he, Varus, be endangered by this man who had grown up with Roman values and within the Roman culture? That had to be a misunderstanding or even slander. The route southwards could be continued confidently...

    In the course of the next day, Varus received a message in which a Germanic people in difficulties asked for help not far away from the travelling route. Varus quickly calculated the detour, decided that it was acceptable and took the route into unknown territory in order to assist the people seeking help. Although moving forward through the rough terrain was difficult - trees had to be cut down and smaller obstacles had to be overcome - all in all, they got on rather well …

    The attack out of the undergrowth came unexpectedly. The Germanic soldiers attacked with all their might. The resistance of the Romans was hindered by the terrain. It was impossible to organise a battle formation. In addition, the impedimenta with its civilians, wagons, pack animals and the transportation carts had to be protected. Therefore, the loss and the casualties were high. In the evening, they entrenched themselves behind a carefully set up camp. They discussed their options and decided to leave unnecessary ballast behind, especially the transportation carts. They set everything on fire so it would not fall into the hands of the enemy…

    The second day was no better for the Roman side despite strategic considerations. In addition, the weather was persistently bad. As the paths became sodden and the approaching enemies continued their incalculable attacks, the Romans suffered heavier losses than before. An orderly camp for the night was impossible. The Romans tried to defend themselves as good as possible. - Were these the forces that had also attacked the Germanic people who had sent for help? Could the Romans, if they pushed forward, join the Germanic people who had sent for help and were favourable towards Rome? And where was Arminius, who had left two days earlier to call on allies for help?

    The next day brought about the decision. The Romans were in a desolate condition, many were injured, clothes were soaked from the rain, and the shields were heavy from the absorbed water. The Germanic warriors, whose knowledge of the terrain and their light weapons gave them an advantage, were able to overpower the remaining Romans and kill many of them. When Varus realised the hopelessness of the situation he committed suicide. Thereby the survivors lost courage even more and many tried to flee, while others surrendered to the enemy or committed suicide, too.

    Florus describes the Germanic brutality, the atrocities inflicted upon the defeated Romans. A holy Germanic grove is referred to the site of the event where the Roman officers were tortured and slayed at the altars. In the end, three legions, three squadrons of cavalry (alae) and six cohorts of auxiliary troops as well as the impedimenta of slaves, women and children were annihilated. Two Roman aquilas were lost to the enemies. The standard bearer broke off the third aquila and hid it underneath his clothes in order to protect it from looting. Where his flight ended is not known; his survival is unlikely.

    Augustus who received Varus’ disembodied head from the Germanic tribes mourned for the dead and prepared an honourable burial for his governor’s head. He never used the numbers of the perished legions - 17, 18 and 19 - again. The plans of Germanias conquest east of the Rhine were given up soon after. The Romans retreated to the border river Rhine.

    Roman historians like Sueton put the catastrophe down to “imprudence” and “carelessness”. But who can decide this from this distance?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2013
  14. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    There are also reenactment events at Kalkriese like this.
    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGa68DLuga8[/ame]
    A Visit Really worth, I have not shown you everything. There are many Things to Discover.
     
  15. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    And at least some Maps about the Territory. But more about this on the ancient battlefield of Kalkriese! ;)
    I hope you have enjoyed this ancient Battle.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  16. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    And if someone has also an ancient Battlefield in his Near, I'd be happy if he also presents it us! Hastings would be great :D
     
  17. Will

    Will Thread Hijacker

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    I watched both parts of the History Channel documentary you posted. I learned a lot from these, thank you for posting them.
    I wonder why it was only Roman artifacts left behind? The armor and weapons would have been useful or valuable. But perhaps they feared retribution and didn't want to be seen in possession of Roman equipment, or they were damaged.
    Whatever the case, this is a fascinating account of the first step in the creation of Germany
     
  18. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    I´am Glad that you like it my Friend :D
    The eagle of the Legion´s disappeared until Today ;)
    A big part of the Stuff was found were Arrow and Spear Tips, Shoe nails, Coins and this Stuff.
    The Germans have looted and the only thing they left lying are trodden into the Ground, lay in the Bushes or something.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  19. Thistle

    Thistle RESIGNED

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    Better known as the Varian disaster! [​IMG]

    Pretty good stuff, Shultz! Sounds like you had a great time. Wow! Thanks for posting all that stuff. You've got a good selection of material. Terrific pics too, especially the weaponry! [​IMG]

    Also interesting is that this fascinating battle site remained unidentified for almost 2,000 years. An amateur archaeologist was prospecting for Roman coins with a metal detector when he discovered this battle ground.

    They also found Roman ovoid-shaped (lead) sling ammo. I wonder if you saw any of those?
     
  20. Schultz

    Schultz New Member

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    Thank you my Friend, I´am glad that you like it :D
    Yes I have seen this (lead) sling Ammo. The were small ovals lead balls.
    You can see it on the Picture, but unfortunately I dont have a better Pic :(
     

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