5/16" hex nuts vs Arnold Palmer can

Discussion in 'Impact studies' started by kohlqez, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    The Question:
    What will happen if I shoot an Arnold Palmer can with 5/16" hex nuts?
    The "Experiment":
    25, 5/16" hex nuts fired from El Halcón with one layer of TBG (1 1/2" tapered to 1") at ten paces
    The Result:
    My first can-cut, or rather first can-obliteration. About 20 shots in, well just look at the pictures. I think the edges of the hex nuts make more of a "cut" than a steel ball. And I'm not sure if the physics support this but, I also thindk the hole in the hex nuts mean that they travel faster than steel balls of the same diameter.

    I would love to retry the test using steel balls of the same diameter but sadly I do Not have any. I would also love to know how to post pictures in the middle of my posts but alas, until I take the time to figure that out you will have to deal with my illogical chronology of my posts...
     

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    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  2. rock slinger

    rock slinger I rarely shoot rocks!

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    Check out this thread. I got a cut I four shots.
    I still got some left so I'll give you some. I also send some 7/16 round ammo. It's a good thig I haven't gotten to the post office, but the package is packed and ready. Should be sent tomorrow.
     

  3. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    Cool, your package is ready, I just need to print out a shipping label an take it to the post office.
     
  4. JohnKrakatoa

    JohnKrakatoa Loudest boom on Earth

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    I think a ball of same weight is always faster then a hexnut
     
  5. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    But a ball of the same weight would have a smaller diameter. Balls have superior penetration, but my "hypothesis" if you want to call it that, is that hex nuts are better if you are trying to cut a can
     
  6. dolomite

    dolomite Banned

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    I doubt it, balls are more accurate than hexnuts and soda cans are like butter. Logic says the more accurate ammo wins out. Soda cans usually cut within 10 shots of 3/8 steel, usually less. It's always steel balls when I'm going for marble cuts from across the workshop, when accuracy really matters nuts don't cut it.
     
  7. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    I'm sure balls are MORE accurate at a distance but from ten paces nuts are just fine. And I meant that hex nuts are bigger therefore they make a bigger hole. I could be wrong but since I have no steel balls to test with I can't prove OR disprove my hypothesis
     
  8. WildBill

    WildBill The Silly Song Guy

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    Sounds like a fun experiment.

    The laws of physics and mathematics are not with you on this conclusion. Hex nuts will always be slower than balls as a projectile. Reason- wind resistance. The hole in the middle of the nut makes it slower, not faster- it creates more resistance/turbulence as it passes through the air, which slows it down. At short distances the amount it is slowed won't be very noticeable, but as the distance traveled increases, the slowing and tumbling affect also increases making the hex nut far less accurate and powerful.

    The edges of the nut do not make an appreciable increase in penetration power. The reason is simply that the velocity as well as the mere 60 degree edge is too minimal for it to matter. If you fired say, a triangle (with 120 degree edges) and actually sharpened them, it would make a difference in penetration of soft targets but when it comes to punching a can, round or hex isn't making any difference. It's the kinetic energy that tears the can, not the shape of the projectile.

    -Wild Bill
     
  9. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    The edges of the nut do not make an appreciable increase in penetration power. The reason is simply that the velocity as well as the mere 60 degree edge is too minimal for it to matter. If you fired say, a triangle (with 120 degree edges) and actually sharpened them, it would make a difference in penetration of soft targets but when it comes to punching a can, round or hex isn't making any difference. It's the kinetic energy that tears the can, not the shape of the projectile.

    -Wild Bill[/QUOTE]
    After I thought about it you're right hex nuts are slower and, at a distance appreciably less accurate, but because of the hole in the hex nuts they are larger (in surface area) than a ball of the same weight. And logic would dictate that bigger object=bigger hole.
    I admit it was incorrect to say that hex nuts are "better" than balls for can cutting, what I really meant was I think hex nuts create larger holes than balls of the same weight.
     
  10. WildBill

    WildBill The Silly Song Guy

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    Hmmm... Your logic is a bit flawed, Sir. A larger surface area means that the kinetic energy is spread out over more surface- this equals less penetration power. Oh, soda cans aren't particularly resilient so at the short distances we're shooting you will see plenty of drama and mayhem, but a steel ball will always have far greater kinetic penetration than a hex nut, since the kinetic profile at impact is always small and consistent.

    -Wild Bill
     
  11. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    Exactly a hex nut makes a bigger hole in a soda can. That was what I was trying to say the whole time
     
  12. WildBill

    WildBill The Silly Song Guy

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    Yes, against a wimpy pathetic opponent like a soda can, a hex nut at close range will do damage. Note that I myself shoot hex nuts at soda cans presently, so I sympathize. Now ask yourself this question- when TEOTWAWKI comes, will we be facing nothing but empty soda cans?

    -Wild Bill
     
  13. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    I still say that, in absence of steel or lead balls, hex nuts are a viable ammunition alternative.
    I've also been thinking of getting some 5/16" threaded rods or bolts and using them to "fill" the holes in the hex nuts. That would make them MORE accurate than with holes, still less accurate than balls though. Definitely better than no ammo
    I can't think of any better ammunition that's as cheap, easy-to-find, somewhat accurate, reasonably effective, and fun to shoot, at least nothing here in Florida... if you've got other ideas I'd sincerely love to here them, one cannot have too many ammo choices!
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  14. coyote-1

    coyote-1 Member

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    Ball will not have better penetration than something that has sharp edges. They don't have to be super sharp, just enough to cause a crease rather than a dent.

    Try it with an axe and a sledgehammer on a chunk of cherrywood. It will become obvious.
     
  15. kohlqez

    kohlqez Accident-Prone

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    If I had a chunk of cherry wood I would DEFINITELY NOT be using it to test axes and sledgehammers